turbodog

Trust me I'm not a DRACULA yet. :) lol... 'yet' ;-) did you know that you are vindictive and are making a personal attack? lmao....

tp graphics speeder 757 stiff - low heat pull, great shape, tour velvet grip. $110 shipped. tp graphics vista pro 90 pulled from a tp rescue mid stiff flex. no grip. $45. buy both together and for a mere $140!! paypal welcome.

Hey Joe! You and I talked about this before and you thought I was crazy... :wink: The first time I heard this was when I was trying Ping TiSi & TiSi TEC's a few years ago. I was trying to find the right hosel configuration (what a pain!). It never made sense to me. But... I went through about 7 or 8 of these drivers experimenting with different hosels. I can tell you that when I hit two identical drivers and one had an open face while other was square, the open-faced one went lower. I never believed it until I did this testing, but I have believed it ever since then. I still don't completely understand the concept, but think is has something to do with laying the open club behind the ball and subconsciously closing it before you start your swing (NOT during) to be perpendicular to the target line. Regards, Don whassup, don? i'll back you up as far as the 'who said it first' part - ping was the one that first made a declaration on this as far as i can remember. i remember going through the exact same thing as you with 4 different ping heads. i think ping even has a faq on their website about the effect of opening and closing faces.

Those are your words, not mine. I like much of TM's golf line. By the way, my tour driver cost me less than the retail R510TP. I could care less what golf club brand, type, tour, component, home made, whatever you play. Why are you so concerned with mine? hey hey, c'mon now - you brought your clubs into this, i didn't. let me just say up front i'm not on your case, especially since our bags are probably more alike than they are different. ;-) like i said, i've had plenty of tour stuff, many of it taylormade and i like it - i offer a truce on the tour vs. retail benefits because that's not my point or what i thought tourspecgolfer was driving at. likewise, i'll apologize if you thought i was putting words in your mouth - that said, i would actually AGREE with you if you were to have said the taylormade tour stuff is better than the retail crap in the stores (with the exception of their tp line). i've said it myself a number of times, lol... my argument is that taylormade does themselves no favors to support people that continually reinforce the idea that the stuff on the racks is junk. i'm not talking about you - but many others that we all know online continually talk about how they won't touch a retail driver cuz it's crap... yet inexplicably credit themselves with driving tmag sales. that's all i'm saying. this type of word of mouth disparages the retail line which is where taylormade makes its real money. but if that's the cost of being able to run the series of ads with hank kuehne, mike weir, and freddie couples with the number 1 driver on tour slogan - all of which DO contribute to retail sales significantly - i guess they are willing to risk that the retail bashing will go largely unnoticed by the public at large. in other words, 1st quarter aside, their success is based on tour dominance, not on leaked tour clubs.

I didn't know people did that. Please PM me the names of whoever re-bores/bends open Taylor Made driver heads. I've got some business for them. Why??? Taylor Made sales have increased during the time this became common. It's working. uhhh, sales. I never even considered Taylor Made products since nearly all the local pros are Titleist staffers, but when I had a chance to try a tour club I bought a TM driver. I liked it. Now I buy other Taylor Made products. I have a group of 15 guys I regularly play golf with: we were all Titleist/Cobra/Callaway players. Every one of them tried my driver, three bought new drivers, one bought irons, and one filled his bag. A few of the others are on the verge. Now that kind of exposure can be measured in dollars for Taylor Made. Everyone I play with wants to try my driver. Taylor Made knows that "X" percent of people who try their products buy them, so it's just a numbers game. And the numbers, i.e. $$$, are getting bigger for Taylor Made/Adidas. All because Taylor Made turns a blind eye when some caddy sells a tour driver his pro no longer wants. that's very nice for you and your friends, and i'm sure taylormade welcomes their RETAIL purchases (they did buy retail after trying your tour driver, right?). did you explain to them how your tour driver was so much better than the crap they buy in the stores? lol.. look, i don't care about this enough to continue arguing the meaning of 'marketing' 'revenue' and 'sales' - i'll just say that i'm sure they accept tour club leakage as part of the cost of dominating the tour driver counts - but the driver count is the marketing tool, not the leaked club. no disrespect to your influence with your regular playing group, but tmag needs to post numbers in the 100s of millions. if i had to guess, i'd say driver counts and demo days and channel education and massive advertising contribute enough to the bottom line that the tour club side is just a nuisance and not central to any sort of strategy. by the way, tmag posted a 1st quarter loss, fwiw: "Carlsbad, Calif. (May 5, 2004) TaylorMade-adidas Golf Company (TMaG) today reported a currency-neutral sales decline of 4% for the first quarter 2004. In euro terms, revenues during the first three months of 2004 declined 13% to EUR 116 million from EUR 134 million in 2003. Sales comparisons with the prior year were impacted by new products available in the first quarter of 2003. Product launches in 2004 are scheduled for later in the year, which led to an increase in first quarter clearance activities and lower overall revenues."

you're kidding right? if it's a marketing tool they should summarily fire their entire marketing department. what kind of marketing tool is, 'we have secret versions clubs that we only make available to tour players to trick you into buying the retail version. we give these clubs to people on ebay who tell you that what we sell in the stores is crap! AND we don't hardly make a dime on the tour issue black market!!! we're just hoping you don't use the internet and will never figure out the difference. thanks for your order.' i agree that tourspecgolfer's is an interesting question though - i'm not surprised about the onesy twosey deals coming from caddies and reps, but places that have large quantities of the stuff - i gotta wonder who's cutting those deals at taylormade. It seems to have worked alright for SC. different market segments - collectible vs. performance. the marketable value to titleist of those putters is scotty's image. the more overblown he becomes the better it is for them in the touchy-feely putter market, where performance benefits take a back seat to handstamping and 'snow.' i wouldn't put drivers in that same category. drivers aren't collectible - their value plummets when the next higher performance model comes out. how does it benefit taylormade to hear that the tour preferred line of drivers, which they created supposedly to fill the niche need of the tour-issue fans, is deemed inferior to the tour df and tour tp? do they jump up and down and celebrate another marketing success? edit: i have no beef with tour issue stuff, and i have owned and liked a lot of it myself. i just don't buy that letting it leak into the 'gray' market helps TMAG make their quarterly commits to the board of directors.

i should clarify my earlier post - i agree that someone at TM is cutting these inventory dump deals, otherwise all these places on ebay would get shut down. so something is going out the back door of TM and it is authorized. however, i am just arguing that it's not a 'good marketing ploy' - it might be a good way to get a little cash out of dead inventory, but marketing? nope.

you're kidding right? if it's a marketing tool they should summarily fire their entire marketing department. what kind of marketing tool is, 'we have secret versions clubs that we only make available to tour players to trick you into buying the retail version. we give these clubs to people on ebay who tell you that what we sell in the stores is crap! AND we don't hardly make a dime on the tour issue black market!!! we're just hoping you don't use the internet and will never figure out the difference. thanks for your order.' i agree that tourspecgolfer's is an interesting question though - i'm not surprised about the onesy twosey deals coming from caddies and reps, but places that have large quantities of the stuff - i gotta wonder who's cutting those deals at taylormade.

i have two of the black and red zipper ones.

pm sent

still available, $650 and other offers accepted.

selling for a friend - d3, 45", excellent condition all around, very few signs of wear. fuji was installed aftermarket. $675 paypal... trades for r510 tp 9.5* head (retail only) plus cash could be worked out.

pm sent through other site.

http://www.ustgolfshaft.com/USTWeb/Product...mily.aspx?id=32 there's a .350 version of the irod - that's close enough if you have a competent guy doing the work. the other problem is that until you pull the head and dry fit the pieces, you don't really know how heavy the head actually is. it could be a little lighter than you guess if they used tip weighting...

i could get you pics... please give me your email address (PM or email me) and i will send them.

$65!!

vokey 54. it's a tour but i have no firm proof other than the fact that it's raw with no stamp, is a slightly different shape head (toe not as high or rounded), has no serial number, has a custom grind on the sole and has original deep grooves. used to be an oil can, but now mostly just rusty... great wedge, got too many. good shape, has been used and is fully rusted but grooves are still deep and sharp. now $65 paypal/shipped. edit: i've had questions about the grind... there's a bit of a grind near the leading edge to reduce digging, and some gentle heel and toe relief.

All brand new in wrappers: - Screaming yellow Cameron towel: $20 - 2002 Club Cameron headcover: $69 - Yellow/Black Cameron Winn grip: $58 These prices are all slightly under what recently ended auctions on eBay closed at. Buy all of it and take $10 off the total. I take Paypal. All prices include shipping. offers accepted!

email sent...

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just confirming what has already been said... i had gotten the specs a while ago. it's 4.5* torque, soft tip, not as counterbalanced as the pro95 and moderately heavy in the 95 gram range. at least, the original maroon ones were. there are a bunch of sapphires hitting the streets now that seem to be black (?hard to tell from pics) and maybe those are over 100 grams. very active tip. it's almost like they stuck a SIX tip on a pro95. nice shaft for a fairway wood - in a driver, not so much imo.

Completely true but at his speed, 13.4* is pretty high. In term of flex is definitely to soft for him, however I don't think just changing to X flex will help him that much, a little yes but not much. Like I said IMO his ideal is supposed to be around 11 - 12. If we are talking shaft only here, he need to go w/ a very tip stiff and high kick shaft, however we shouldn't not disregards the feel of the shaft that he likes. From my experiences most people who likes Fuji feel, They got pretty spoil w/ it. No matter how good they hit the other shaft, they kept on saying that it's not like the feel of fuji. This gets worst to a feel players. Oh 1 more think, He shouldn't be to concern about CPM to much. It's only number and plus one man CPM machine is different than others. BTW, How are you? it's been a while since the last time we talked. :) i'm doing well, joe - thanks for asking! i have son #2 about ready to bust out, so my play has been curtailed quite a bit. which means i've been tearing apart clubs and re-building them to keep me occupied! i just spined and dowel'd my irons (which had been factory built) and it has made a small world of difference. just love that sound... hope your recent travels were safe and pleasant - good to see you 'back' and ready for action w/ new shipments and products!

joey... would you agree that perhaps the pro 95 in stiff is a little soft for a 120 mph clubhead speed, unless his tempo is unusually smooth? that would look to me to be solid x range... that might help his launch issue a little right there.

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ditto naylit. vtlt is very tip stiff and feels it. pro 95 is high kick but doesn't feel particularly tip stiff (though the tip is pretty stable).