Guest Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 In the discussion re MP-27, it was mentioned that they might have "inverse offset."Meaning the PW has more offset then the long irons. When I checked on the Mizuno website, I came across a description of "face progression" that showed a greater number as the set went from 3i to PW. I was corrected by bsu stating that face progression is NOT offset! Having seen face progression defined as offset on other boards, can someone please educate me on the correct answer to this question. What is face progression? And why does the Mizuno MP-27 show a greater face progression in the short irons vs the long irons? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 In the discussion re MP-27, it was mentioned that they might have "inverse offset."Meaning the PW has more offset then the long irons. When I checked on the Mizuno website, I came across a description of "face progression" that showed a greater number as the set went from 3i to PW.I was corrected by bsu stating that face progression is NOT offset! Having seen face progression defined as offset on other boards, can someone please educate me on the correct answer to this question. What is face progression? And why does the Mizuno MP-27 show a greater face progression in the short irons vs the long irons? Thanks I always thought it depends on what it is we are talking about. It could mean the size of the head progressively gets smaller, bigger, wider etc.. or It could mean the amount of offset varies between the PW to 3i progressively more or less. I guess any brand could say somthing along them lines. Am I correct? :whistle: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAQ Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 Here's are definitions from http://www.swingweight.com. Also, I should add that the Mizuno MP27's do not inverse their offset at all. I'm not sure where this is coming from, but they are traditional in their use of Minimal Offset. ____________________________________________________ Progressive Face technology: Generic term applied to any club face of varying thickness Progressive Flexibility: A shafting concept in which longer irons are fitted with more flexible shafts to promote feel and aid in getting the ball airborne and shorter irons utilize stiffer shafts for added control. Progressive Offset: Iron head design feature in which longer irons have more offset and shorter irons have less. The offset progresses in somewhat uniform increments through the set. More offset is featured in long irons as offset tends to eliminate slicing and helps to get the ball airborne, qualities that help most players hit the ball straighter. Progressive Torque: A set of shafts which exhibit a changing of torque from one shaft to another through the set. Typically the torque will be greater in the longer irons and less in the shorter shafts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorkman53 Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 My understanding was that "face progression" referred to how far in front of the center of the shaft the leading edge of a club was. It is related to offset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAQ Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 My understanding was that "face progression" referred to how far in front of the center of the shaft the leading edge of a club was. It is related to offset. That is really progressive Offset. Progressive can be defined in a variety of ways. :smile1: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgk5 Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 In woods, it means the amount of the face's leading edge that is visible AHEAD of the hosel. In persimmon woods, it helped achieve more desirable launch angles. As for irons, I am unsure as to its purported meaning. :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 My understanding was that "face progression" referred to how far in front of the center of the shaft the leading edge of a club was. It is related to offset. in regards to japanese iron specs "face progression" is the distance between two vertical parallel lines - if you sole the club with the shaft pointing straight-up one line is formed by the center of the hosel and the other by the leading edge. this is easier to see if you look from the toe side. but NO it doesn't have anything to do with offset. a club can have high f.p. and have little offset or a lot of offset and vice versa. but it does seem like in the us f.p. is sometimes used as a measurement for offset...maybe they do it differently. i thought offset was the distance the leading edge of the hosel sits IN FRONT of the leading edge of the face??? anyways all my info comes from a japanese iron cataloge which lists specs for @1000 irons from most the manufacturers both jpn and us. they have another measurement for how closed the face is rather than a measurement for offset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyce89976 Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Face progression and offset are measuring the same thing differently. Face progression is defined as the position of the leading edge of the clubface in relation to the centerline of the hosel. The higher the number (3.5mm ~ 4.5mm) the more face progression the club has. 0 face progression would mean the leading edge of the clubface is in the same vertical plane as the hosel's centerline (which we would normally refer to as an offset position). Offset is defined as the position of the leading edge of the clubface in relation to the leading edge of the hosel. They both measure the same thing only with different reference points... ie, centerline vs. leading edge of the hosel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Face progression and offset are measuring the same thing differently. Face progression is defined as the position of the leading edge of the clubface in relation to the centerline of the hosel. The higher the number (3.5mm ~ 4.5mm) the more face progression the club has. 0 face progression would mean the leading edge of the clubface is in the same vertical plane as the hosel's centerline (which we would normally refer to as an offset position). Offset is defined as the position of the leading edge of the clubface in relation to the leading edge of the hosel. They both measure the same thing only with different reference points... ie, centerline vs. leading edge of the hosel. i got you - pretty much the same understanding i have of f.p. but i don't get how it's an indication of offset. take a set of irons like the gd cavitybacks where the 9I has a f.p. of 4.2 and a lot of offset but the 3I has a lower f.p. of 3 and has minimal offset. if an f.p. of 0 indicates a fully offset club then the opposite would be true - right??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyce89976 Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Face progression and offset are measuring the same thing differently. Face progression is defined as the position of the leading edge of the clubface in relation to the centerline of the hosel. The higher the number (3.5mm ~ 4.5mm) the more face progression the club has. 0 face progression would mean the leading edge of the clubface is in the same vertical plane as the hosel's centerline (which we would normally refer to as an offset position). Offset is defined as the position of the leading edge of the clubface in relation to the leading edge of the hosel. They both measure the same thing only with different reference points... ie, centerline vs. leading edge of the hosel. i got you - pretty much the same understanding i have of f.p. but i don't get how it's an indication of offset. take a set of irons like the gd cavitybacks where the 9I has a f.p. of 4.2 and a lot of offset but the 3I has a lower f.p. of 3 and has minimal offset. if an f.p. of 0 indicates a fully offset club then the opposite would be true - right??? The FP specs of the GD's sound right, but by the true definitions of FP and Offset you can't have it both ways. FWIW, Miura 1005 "straight neck" model has 4.5mm FP, while the "goose neck" model has 3.5mm FP. Not sure what the offset measurement is, but the "goose" is definitely more offset than the "straight neck". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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