Why won't Titleist make a 460cc

[thefork]

With Tiger and Vijay using it, there is obviously a need. Why not build it and they will come??

[+TourSpecGolfer]

With Tiger and Vijay using it, there is obviously a need. Why not build it and they will come??

It will come, just be patient. Titleist changes very slowly.

[Breal]

It will come, but Titleist launches a new driver like every two years. There are more and more 460cc heads out there, but the majority of the players like the smaller heads for look appeal and workability. And Titleist is a players club, and they don't want to cater to the weekend golfer. There just anal like that, but IMO they should jump on the band wagon and go that route, but thats why they bought Cobra for the weekend golfer. We will see in about 2 more years, what they decide to do. There up to a 400cc + now and thats amazing.

[rgk5]

Then, they would be admitting that they are behind the curve which is not their style.

[thefork]

I don't think Tiger is a weekend golfer with his 460cc!!! :surprize: I love Titleist and am anxiously awaiting the 735CM's but I think they are way behind on the drivers and their attitude of "We are a Players" company doesn't hold weight when some of the BEST players in the world are using 460cc's. With Tiger using them and Vijay too, if Titleist waits 2 years, they will have completely lost their market in woods in two years because most golfers that wouldn't use the big clubs are starting to try them out now, b/c Tiger is using one, and in two years most will have bought one. I am a good golfer and I never thought I would use a "mailbox on a stick" but I now own a G2 and would have rather had a chance at a Titleist at 460cc. I use to make fun of people with those big drivers, now I have one.

[jboy]

:-D

Here's one guy that wish Titleist would build more solid feeling drivers again... the E/K was total crap and I'm back to the D.

A lot of the low handicap players don't like big heads, a lot of turf drag, causes torque problems off toe hits, ugly at address, horrible acoustics, can't work the ball, trajectory issues, no feel, cracked heads or collapsed faces etc.... the list goes on & on.

Soup cans are great for grunters who can't hit the ball very far... BTW: T Woods was in the rough at lot at the Nissan... I bet if he wheeled out his 975D again he'd be #1 and winning majors

[rexwrx]

:-D

Here's one guy that wish Titleist would build more solid feeling drivers again... the E/K was total crap and I'm back to the D.

A lot of the low handicap players don't like big heads, a lot of turf drag, causes torque problems off toe hits, ugly at address, horrible acoustics, can't work the ball, trajectory issues, no feel, cracked heads or collapsed faces etc.... the list goes on & on.

Soup cans are great for grunters who can't hit the ball very far... BTW: T Woods was in the rough at lot at the Nissan... I bet if he wheeled out his 975D again he'd be #1 and winning majors

Last time he wheeled out the D it did him no favours- a tried and failed experiment. If he's gonna be in the rough he might as well have lob wedge in rather than 7 iron.

On topic- I would venture to say Titleist does have large drivers and explores the curve with the Cobra line. Remember, the plasma welds were first used in the Cobra line and trickled "up" to Titleist. Cobra is somewhat of a testing ground before new technology is incorporated into the Titleist drivers.

Cheers

[teampowers]

Playability is also a factor. Imagine a 460cc titleist driver with their normal bore through and hosel configuration. If you installed that thing full bore, it would be a pain and the length would be too long for the normal tip section of a shaft.

[sflaspprentice]

I don't remember the:

Cleveland Comp

Nike Ignite

PING TiSi - Si3

Mizuno MP

Cobra Comp

Cobra SZ

Callaway 454

Callway GBB II

Much less any other driver besides the club whoring TM that had a driver fetch $2 grand on the bay.

You guys think you have the answers. Cobra is their 460 driver company. For you guys to say that they are "missing the curve" is one of the funniest things I have ever heard.

I like the fact that they wait 2 years to release their product. Ever wonder why? Because the people spending the better part of their weekly paycheck to play one know its not going to be worth zero 5 weeks later. So what if Tiger and Vijay are using 460 heads. You think they are magically going to disappear off of the face of this earth?

Lets use a little common sense here everyone.

[rgk5]

"Lets use a little common sense here everyone"

Good idea and here is some for you. I can tell you most assuredly from selling perhaps 225-275 drivers over the last two years, that the average Titleist retail customer will not even sniff a Cobra driver. Why? He considers Cobra a second tier division that is not in the same rarified atmosphere as Titleist. These players have increasingly purchased Ping G2's and Cleveland 460's because their preferred company has been slow to respond to marketplace trends.

I am only telling you what they are telling me.

[sflaspprentice]

I was never talking market specific.

What you forget to mention is that you are saying Titleist is market specific. Of course people looking at Titleist drivers are not looking at Cobras, thats because they are two different markets. Cobra itself, also shares the market with Cleveland, and PING's G2.

Lets remember that when Titleist introduced the 983K which is overwhelmingly the favorite driver, the competition was selling the Ping Si3 340 cc and the Taylor R5 series which sold heads that were 310, 340, and 400cc's respectively. The Cleveland 400 pushed the limits but at 35 cc's larger than the 365 cc offering, of course these drivers will be competitive. Cobra was pushing the 380 and the 427 driver.

Oh and ive sold drivers too...for 5 years. :-)

[rgk5]

The "finger" was hardly necessary as we are discussing golf equipment not personal relationships.

Yes, Titleist is somewhat market specific but I guarantee you that if they had made a 440-460cc driver many of the Ping, Cleveland et al buyers would have bought Titleist but they could not.

Cobra has been very succesful considering they were almost left for dead about six years ago. Fortune Brands has done an admirable job with that product line and I am sure the new 905's will sell quite well in the beginning as did the 983 Series. Every year the market becomes more intense and the window of opportunity is shorter.

[jungleheadjim]

i think the reason for it is that its not their style.

can you imagine a 460cc pear shape head? would look rediculous.

and bigger is not always better.

[kpcw]

Cobra is a game-improvement driver. Period. Yeah they make 400cc+ to 454cc heads. They are clankers compared to Titty 983 series. The crown of the Cobra is so unlike anything, it can be a huge distraction. Their closed faces and super light stock shafts speak volumes of just who the club is designed for.

Titleist are the opposite of game-improvement, they are for gamers. Smaller heads, square lines, square face.

Titleist has, as someone already stated, a 460cc head....It's their division of game improvment heads sold by...Cobra.

Think about it...Titleist is on the verge of a massive release of two new heads, are they close to 460cc? Nope. I think they know what they are doing indeed. There is no need for hostility or arrogance on this topic, none of us on their board of directors or tour staff. Some may want a Titty 460cc head, you'll have to wait two more years, maybe forever.

I am curious to see the new Titleist drivers. Seems to me to be a more forgiving 983.

[SwingMan]

i think the reason for it is that  its not their style.

can you imagine a 460cc pear shape head? would look rediculous.

and bigger is not always better.

Well, I dont know about that -- the Ignite 460cc seems popular and they've attempted to copy the Titleist shape in a big headed driver.

Look, some people just want a Titleist, not a Cobra. So no matter how much marketing Acushnet does for Cobra to pump up sales, the Tity buyer won't go Cobra (I can't go Cobra because of the head top and funky logo) -- so Tity, if they want to sell drivers. better get off their collective butt and design a 460cc quickly OR risk losing more market share.

I predict the 905 will be a bust -- good initial sales -- but it won't sell like the 983 to the masses -- I bought a 983 but won't be buying a 905 -- too many better options. And the 905 is not exactly taking the tour by storm. I bet those guys in R&D are going at it hard to find something bigger -- either go Big or Die - Tity chose the latter this time.

[jboy]

Go big or Die????

Get real !!! Titties ball sales could subsidize the club making business even if it was flat on it's arse.

They were in a similar position in the mid 80's... they're still here and anyway 460 doesn't hit the ball further, half the clowns buying them couldn't hit themselves flush in the face with their new purchase!!!

IT'S ALL TECHNO HYPE!

[jungleheadjim]

as ive stated before. bigger is not always better.

i am a fan of the smaller heads and wont go over 400cc. jsut for the fact that its horrible looking at adress. even if they make a deep face version. i like a shallo head liek the k or 540xdtp.

but to say that a bigger head will go farther is bull. if you hit them both on the exact sweetspot they will go the same distance with todays technology. all bigger is, is more forgiving. thats it. imo.

[MFonseca]

Here is my story,

Taylor Made Bubble (6 years)

Titleist 975J (3 years)

Titleist 983K (1 year)

Titleist 975J was back in the bag...better feel more consistent than the 983K....until I tried a Cleveland 460 COMP.

Titleist just lost a customer to the competition.....I will still play the Pro V1

because it is the best performing ball for me. It's not what works for the pros...it is rather what works for me.

[MFonseca]

Here is my story,

Taylor Made Bubble (6 years)

Titleist 975J (3 years)

Titleist 983K (1 year)

Titleist 975J was back in the bag...better feel more consistent than the 983K....until I tried a Cleveland 460 COMP.

Titleist just lost a customer to the competition.....I will still play the Pro V1

because it is the best performing ball for me. It's not what works for the pros...it is rather what works for me.

[MFonseca]

Here is my story,

Taylor Made Bubble (6 years)

Titleist 975J (3 years)

Titleist 983K (1 year)

Titleist 975J was back in the bag...better feel more consistent than the 983K....until I tried a Cleveland 460 COMP.

Titleist just lost a customer to the competition.....I will still play the Pro V1

because it is the best performing ball for me. It's not what works for the pros...it is rather what works for me.

[dls]

New member, first post, just trying things out, here's my driver story (history):

975 D

983 E

983 K

R510 TP

Now: MP-001 460 itching to be played (still snow here in Canada). Head sizes have been inching up for 20 years. Purists never want change. The researchers and developers, the consumer market, and now the tour players are all seemingly embracing change. I'm gonna give it a try. I guess that means that if Titleist doesn't builde something bumping up to 440-460, they aren't on my radar screen.

[johnnypro]

Anyone who owns and likes his "K" and then plunks down $500+ :money: for a 905T is, IMHO, a jerk. It's the same damn club, just a little bigger.

This is what we all waited for??????

And don't give me this "workability" nonsense. First of all, the new balls limit workability all by themselves; second, the name of the game today is hit it far. TW, VJ, PM don't seem to give the workability factor too much creedance. That s**t died with Hogan.

Wake up, Titleist!

[jboy]

TW, VJ, PM don't seem to give the workability factor too much creedance.

.. the US PGA set ups only punishes players who go 10 yards and less offline... if your 30 yds like Mickleson you've got a clean lie and line of sight.

Problem with American golf is that the equipment is totally target golf orientated... it's fun to watch TW in the his waterprooofs thrashing around the wet kneehigh rough playing the windswept British Open... no stinger two irons from pine needle lies in the woods onto the green

Mr Hogan would have throttled back, worked the ball and kicked his ass! :wink:

[sam2011]

y'all still gotta give workability and the great ball strikers some respect. to me, a pro who can hit a knee high 2 iron that draws or cuts 6 yards to an exact target is a much better player than someone who can bomb it 330 and have a sand wedge into the green. this whole idea of golfers being distance crazy is partially why i think you dont even see many 2 irons in bags anymore (that and technology).

working the ball is an art, there was an interview in golf magazine a year ago with steve elkington (who ironically happens to be a titleist guy), who said something to the affect of how its a joke how people claim to be "left to right" hitters, or "right to left" hitters, because when he first came on tour, in order to stay on tour you had to know how to work the ball both ways. thats why you wont see the same people at the top of the leaderboard at colonial, where you have to know how hit a 10 yard cut on one tee and a 15 yard draw on the next, than you will at the buick at torrey pines, where you need to carry it 290 to even have a 6-iron in.

is it good for the game? we can bitch about this forever...but y'all have to admit, if you can work the ball, you still have one hell of an advantage over someone who bombs it out there aimlessly. just my $0.02. :tired:

-sammy

[kpcw]

I tend to agree with Johnnypro, if you own and love your 983K, why switch?

In this sense it is reality check; the 983 series is simply awesome. Yeah people get bent looking at the new 905 series, many seem disappointed but seriously men, how much can Sports Illustrated improve this year's swim suit editon over last year's? How much change could be made to the 983?

Would a 425cc or 450cc be nice to see, yes. Still, I think the 905 will do well and it simply pays homage to see how many guys still have the 983 in 2005.