gocchin Posted February 8, 2010 Report Share Posted February 8, 2010 Posted the new TR Wedge Review on the blog: http://www.golftoimpress.com/2010/02/prgr-...d-wedge-review/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPONfreak Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Excellent, very useful and highly relevant review as usual gocchin. These wedges look fantastic and a move in the direction I would like to see from Japanese manufacturers in terms of wedge offerings. Any chance these could be provided with non conforming grooves? most of us even for club competition arent obliged to use 2010 grooves for some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idrive Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 I'm going to use these wedges to compare to my current gamers and see just how much spin has been lost with the conforming grooves. At this point, at least as far as the wedges go, I have no intentions of using conforming grooves anytime soon. Great review T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Same here no plans to switch to conforming grooves until non conforming wedges are no longer produced. I don't play any USGA events and the pro's are saying 50% reduction in spin on the Nike Groove Video. The good in all of this is the lack of spin will force players to learn different shots to make up for the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPONfreak Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 So is it possible to get these with non conforming grooves? I don't understand why manufacturers would only make clubs with 2010 grooves and ignore 99.9% of the market that aren't obliged to conform to this (stupid) rule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vineman23 Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Hi Guys, With the new rules any club produced / released prior to the 31st December was allowed to carry the old grooves and can continue to be made with them up to 2024. Unfortunately any club produced / released after the 1st January must conform and can only be made with conforming grooves even though we non pro's can use old grooves! The only way to get old grooves in a new wedge is to groove them yourself with a hand tool or find a workshop set up with a cnc machine capable with the right bit! From other forums there is a lot of speculation that anyone with a hcp of 2 or above would not be able to tell the difference if handed 2 different wedges on a blind trial. Also most say that the ball will change to suit the new wedges and "replacce" some of the lost spin, this was one of the driving forces behind TM penta / five ball so we could get more short iron spin without increasing distance club spin rates. Hope that helps some, Vineman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPONfreak Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 From other forums there is a lot of speculation that anyone with a hcp of 2 or above would not be able to tell the difference if handed 2 different wedges on a blind trial.Vineman I would dispute that. I have hit my pro's conforming wedges a number of times on the range and shorter pitch shots and there was a marked difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idrive Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 That's why I am going to check it out for myself. Except for the PRGR wedges I have no intentions of buying any other wedges right now that are conforming. I do agree that after a short time that the ball will change and the groove rule really won't make much difference. The ball company that comes out with "old groove" "new groove" marketing can't be to far away... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Master Sasaya can put new grooves on your wedges for you then refinish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPONfreak Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Master Sasaya can put new grooves on your wedges for you then refinish. now we're talking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vineman23 Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 I would dispute that. I have hit my pro's conforming wedges a number of times on the range and shorter pitch shots and there was a marked difference. Interesting to hear, with any speculation on forum's you never know until you try it out yourself! personally I hope to never find out till 2024 unless the ball changes are so dramatic that they don't work with "old" grooves time will tell I spose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vineman23 Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Master Sasaya can put new grooves on your wedges for you then refinish. Thanks, sounds like a good option. Do you have an approximate cost for the work? I know it all depends oin finishes and work done but an approximate would help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoNDoN Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 As always a great review gocchin. I would dispute that. I have hit my pro's conforming wedges a number of times on the range and shorter pitch shots and there was a marked difference. Being able to hit both conforming and non conforming grooves in a launch monitor and outdoors there is not a difference at all on clean shots. The biggest difference is when the ball is wet and/or coming out of the rough. This is where the spin decreased about 50%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPONfreak Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 As always a great review gocchin.Being able to hit both conforming and non conforming grooves in a launch monitor and outdoors there is not a difference at all on clean shots. The biggest difference is when the ball is wet and/or coming out of the rough. This is where the spin decreased about 50%. no difference at all?....we must strike the ball differently and play in different conditions. There was a substantial difference for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoNDoN Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 no difference at all?....we must strike the ball differently and play in different conditions. There was a substantial difference for me. I was able to do extensive testing with pros and myself and neither of us found a substantial difference with cleanly struck shots off of the fairway. This was confirmed with launch monitor testing too. Were you able to use the same wedge design using different grooves? Head designs do make a difference in spin as well. The biggest difference in spin is going to be out of the rough and shots that are not cleanly struck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 I was able to do extensive testing with pros and myself and neither of us found a substantial difference with cleanly struck shots off of the fairway. This was confirmed with launch monitor testing too. Were you able to use the same wedge design using different grooves? Head designs do make a difference in spin as well. The biggest difference in spin is going to be out of the rough and shots that are not cleanly struck. I have not compared the two myself yet but just check out the Nike Video, top PGA players are saying that its about half the RPM's than the previous grooves. Also to put things in perspective a wedge with ZERO grooves produces a similar amount of spin in perfect conditions to one with grooves for the average player. But with a single spray of water the spin is almost all gone. When I say perfect conditions I mean Zero water or condensation. DonDon I can only guess your LM testing was done indoors? If so that explains your spin rates, try the same test on the grass where there is natual humidity in it. Another thing to note is that top players usually hit down very hard on the ball and produce lots of spin vs the average player or even club pro for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoNDoN Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 I have not compared the two myself yet but just check out the Nike Video, top PGA players are saying that its about half the RPM's than the previous grooves.Also to put things in perspective a wedge with ZERO grooves produces a similar amount of spin in perfect conditions to one with grooves for the average player. But with a single spray of water the spin is almost all gone. When I say perfect conditions I mean Zero water or condensation. DonDon I can only guess your LM testing was done indoors? If so that explains your spin rates, try the same test on the grass where there is natual humidity in it. Another thing to note is that top players usually hit down very hard on the ball and produce lots of spin vs the average player or even club pro for that matter. I was able to do LM testing indoors and outdoors from the fairway and out of the rough. We even sprayed balls in both conditions and we noticed a 50% drop in RPMs when the ball was not perfectly clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Thanks, sounds like a good option. Do you have an approximate cost for the work? I know it all depends oin finishes and work done but an approximate would help? Ok gents got a approx price, its about 135 - 150 and he can make just about any groove even shredders. The finish doesn't have to be removed he can just CNC the exact location of the original groove. Keep in mind your grooves will rust if you dont clean them after the process. The other option is to remove the plating, CNC the new grooves onto the face then replate which would add some money to the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHawkmc Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Chris, Any topline views of the 58* & 52* wedges. I'm ready to order based on the 'golf to impress' review, but would like to see pics of the actual lofts I play. Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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