AF Tour or AF 302

[JBW]

I could use some help with choosing between Epon AF Tour and AF 302. I looked through as many threads as possible, but I’m just looking for that warm fuzzy before I spend this much on an iron set. Unfortunately, I don’t have access to a fitter or a shop where I can demo.

A little about me. I’m a 3hdcp currently playing Mizuno MP-52 with DG S300. I hit my 7 iron ~165yards and higher than most people’s 9i or PW. As you can probably surmise, I have a steep swing, which gives me trouble in strong winds. My previous set was Mizuno MP-67s, which I hit OK. I don’t have much trouble making solid/center contact, but for some reason, I just score better with my MP-52s. They are also play about a ½ club longer than my MP-67s.

I have never seen (other than in pics) or swung Epon, but after reading reviews on all types of JDM irons, they were always rated as one of the best. So, I pretty much decided on AF 302 since they more closely resemble my MP 52s, but when I contacted the TSG staff for availability/pricing, they also recommended taking a look at the AF Tours.

I don’t have a preference between the AF Tours or AF 302s, what I’m looking for is more of a piercing ball flight than I currently have with my MP-52s. I know I need to work on my steep swing, but all things being equal, which iron set would give me a lower, more protruding ball flight? I’ve played DG S300 or X100 for the last 20 years, so I’m looking for a change. The TSG staff recommend Super Peening Blue, which from reading reviews, sounds like a very good shaft.

And while I have your “ear”, which set of JDM wedges would you guys recommend? I currently have Vokey Spin Milled wedges in 52 and 60 degree lofts. But I want to go with 3 wedges in addition to my PW this year, so I’m looking at something like 50, 54, and 60.

Thanks in advance,

Joe

[Eca]

Hi Joe,

Basing on ur historcal decision making (52 vs 67) I say 302s stronger loft vs tours traditional lofts. I have not used the SP blues but it's description & reviews indicate lower flight. I'm also a high ball hitter & tried the c tapers & it did lower my flight in the 1957s.

[sandee11]

What about combo set? That's what I m using right now, I have shimada k's tour shaft in them, I don't think I lose as much distance as DG shaft into wind. I am also a very high ball hitter. I actually like the traditional loft on those af tour,but if you are thinking of using 50* wedge, I would suggest get the 302 or bent the af tour 2* stronger.

[EdGolf]

IMO both are equally nice and as 'forgiving'. 302 is not more forgiving than AF Tour and likewise. The only difference is the loft where the traditional loft would most likely give you a lower ball flight versus a stronger loft.

As for shaft, try a lower launching shaft. If you're hitting your DG S300 too high, then the SP Blue might be a good idea or as some mention C-Taper. Shaft will depends on the type of ball flight you would like to see or achieve.... some shaft like Modus do launch higher than SP Blue but the trajectory is not 'ballooning' up in the sky and getting lost in the wind but instead very penetrating and hold itself against the wind well.

[Guest kbeasley]

Joe,

I have been playing Mizuno MP-32s for the last year or so, with factory DG S400 shafts in them. Like you, I hit the ball really high, but not because I want to. I went on a shaft hunt this summer, to find something that would bring these babies down to earth, and hopefully give better feedback than the DGs. I tried just about everything I could get my hands on: DG S300, DG400, KBS Tour, KBS C-taper, Nippon 950,1050, 1150, Modus 3, and SP Blue, and Shimada K's Tour, all in Stiff flex. All of these shafts have their good points, but only the SP Blues had much of an effect on my shot trajectory. As has been noted here on TSG many times, the KBS Tours and the NS Pro 950's go _really_ high, and my experience was the same.

The SP Blues gave me an extra 5 yards on a flush hit, and I found that my shot dispersion is _much_ tighter with them than with any of the others.

As far as wedges go, I play a 52, 56, 60 * set of Mizuno MPT-11s, with Shimada HW120 shafts in them. The shimadas have been in a set of Vokeys, Eidolons, and now the Mizunos. No matter which head I put these in, they are without a doubt the best wedge shafts going.

Kevin

[Ara selai]

I preferred the Tours, but I'm about 20 strokes behind you. With your handicap, you can hit just about anything you want. You'll find the Tours an effortless club to work, win a very pure, soft feel. One of the nicest blades out there.

[gocchin]

The "TSG Staff" would be me.

A combo set is something I should have mentioned as well and since the clubs are built to spec we can have Epon either strengthen the AFTour lofts or weaken the AF302 to match.

As I said many have had good success with the SP Blue in lowering trajectory. Plus without sacrificing good feel and very good dispersion.

[JGalls]

My AF Tours should be here in approx. 2 weeks after being custom fit about 3 weeks ago.

I was shocked these are blade... easily the most forgiving blade I've ever tried.

Can't wait to get them out on the course come spring.

[JBW]

Hi Joe,

Basing on ur historcal decision making (52 vs 67) I say 302s stronger loft vs tours traditional lofts. I have not used the SP blues but it's description & reviews indicate lower flight. I'm also a high ball hitter & tried the c tapers & it did lower my flight in the 1957s.

I think you're right, although I do like to play blades, I think I'd be happier with the AF302's bounce since I'm more of a digger/driver.

What about combo set? That's what I m using right now, I have shimada k's tour shaft in them, I don't think I lose as much distance as DG shaft into wind. I am also a very high ball hitter. I actually like the traditional loft on those af tour,but if you are thinking of using 50* wedge, I would suggest get the 302 or bent the af tour 2* stronger.

The "TSG Staff" would be me.

A combo set is something I should have mentioned as well and since the clubs are built to spec we can have Epon either strengthen the AFTour lofts or weaken the AF302 to match.

As I said many have had good success with the SP Blue in lowering trajectory. Plus without sacrificing good feel and very good dispersion.

A combo set does sound like a good option, I'll have to give it some more thought.

IMO both are equally nice and as 'forgiving'. 302 is not more forgiving than AF Tour and likewise. The only difference is the loft where the traditional loft would most likely give you a lower ball flight versus a stronger loft.

As for shaft, try a lower launching shaft. If you're hitting your DG S300 too high, then the SP Blue might be a good idea or as some mention C-Taper. Shaft will depends on the type of ball flight you would like to see or achieve.... some shaft like Modus do launch higher than SP Blue but the trajectory is not 'ballooning' up in the sky and getting lost in the wind but instead very penetrating and hold itself against the wind well.

I preferred the Tours, but I'm about 20 strokes behind you. With your handicap, you can hit just about anything you want. You'll find the Tours an effortless club to work, win a very pure, soft feel. One of the nicest blades out there.

We all need forgiveness, don't we . I believe the problem I had with my MP-67s is that sometimes they would dig in too deep instead of providing a little more bounce I get with my MP-52s. So, if the AF 302s provide more bounce than the AF Tours, I'll lean toward the AF 302s.

Joe,

I have been playing Mizuno MP-32s for the last year or so, with factory DG S400 shafts in them. Like you, I hit the ball really high, but not because I want to. I went on a shaft hunt this summer, to find something that would bring these babies down to earth, and hopefully give better feedback than the DGs. I tried just about everything I could get my hands on: DG S300, DG400, KBS Tour, KBS C-taper, Nippon 950,1050, 1150, Modus 3, and SP Blue, and Shimada K's Tour, all in Stiff flex. All of these shafts have their good points, but only the SP Blues had much of an effect on my shot trajectory. As has been noted here on TSG many times, the KBS Tours and the NS Pro 950's go _really_ high, and my experience was the same.

The SP Blues gave me an extra 5 yards on a flush hit, and I found that my shot dispersion is _much_ tighter with them than with any of the others.

As far as wedges go, I play a 52, 56, 60 * set of Mizuno MPT-11s, with Shimada HW120 shafts in them. The shimadas have been in a set of Vokeys, Eidolons, and now the Mizunos. No matter which head I put these in, they are without a doubt the best wedge shafts going.

Kevin

Excellent rundown Kevin, thanks! This is just the feedback I was looking for!

My AF Tours should be here in approx. 2 weeks after being custom fit about 3 weeks ago.

I was shocked these are blade... easily the most forgiving blade I've ever tried.

Can't wait to get them out on the course come spring.

You're not making this decision any easier

[corky3]

I love my 302s.... I haven't looked at another iron for 2 years, well Ive lloked, but never contemplated changing.

Oh and I have SP reds in mine.

[idrive]

IMO,

If you are a very good ball striker, or at least working hard at it, buy the Tours. If a bit of forgivieness

would come in handy on occasion, buy the 302's.

A mid capper to a scratch player can play the 302's. A mid capper would struggle a bit with the Tours.

[supo]

i pulled out both my 302 7 iron and the aftour 7 iron to have a little look at both .

the af tour isnt what id call slender ,but its not thick either. compared to my ohter baldes it looks like a game improvement iron, but in comp to my yamaha tours , it looke like a medium blade.. its got a weird role the af t ours.

if i was to have ONLY one set of irons then the af oturs would be hard to knock back bec they look almost like blades but a bit bigger for a bit of forgiveness, esp i nthe 3-4-5 dept.

the 302 has more substance to it and it def looks an easier to hit club.

but its fantasticly solid at address. not much ive ever hit is close to this in softness and a pure joy to strike.

these u can work around a bit no problems. but in comparison the af tours, they arnt as workable.

a combo set is well worth consdiering 3-7 in the 302 ..... and 8-9-pw......... i nthe tours is how id go,

the 7 iron i think just looks more solid i nthe 302 than the af tours, i much prefer to hithte 302 than the af tour in this loft.

and in the 8-9-pw the af tours , to me are way better to look at getting close to pins .

either way u will be quite chuffed with them

[potuna]

I wonder if I have ever been really chuffed?

[supo]

hhhahaha

[DaleUK]

Hmmm the 302's sound like one hell o a Golf Club?

[supo]

yup

in that style of club, the 302 and the yamaha tours are top of three that ive hit.

[sandee11]

Hmmm the 302's sound like one hell o a Golf Club?

U have to hit them to feel and appreciate how good they are.I have mine in combo with shimada k's tour. Best head shaft combo I have ever hit! have a set of ns pro dp proto in yururi flat back, waiting for rain to stop, course re-open to test the yururi dp proto combo.

[DaleUK]

U have to hit them to feel and appreciate how good they are.I have mine in combo with shimada k's tour. Best head shaft combo I have ever hit! have a set of ns pro dp proto in yururi flat back, waiting for rain to stop, course re-open to test the yururi dp proto combo.

What's in your Combo set??

[sandee11]

What's in your Combo set??

3-6 af 302, 7-pw af tour, didn't adjust the loft. Like the traditional loft on those af tour. Those shimada shafts in them are perfect match FOR ME!

[JBW]

Well, I went with the AF 302s. I'm not getting any younger and I won't be able to get out on the course as much as I want to, so I wanted something with a little more forgiveness. I was thinking hard about getting a combo set, but I want to have have my yardages dialed in between irons and I since I've never had a combo set, I didn't want to take on a $2,000 experiment. I know I could have weakened the 302s and made the Tours stronger to get the lofts in tolerances, but just because there's 4* difference doesn't mean they are going to react the same. They could, but again, didn't want to experiment this time and it is an option down the road once I get a feel for these irons. I also went with the 210KGX wedges in 50*, 56* and 60* lofts. Here are the specs:

3 - PW

+.75" Super Peening Blue - X 1x soft step

+1/16" Tour Velvet Grips

D3 (wedges D4 & D5)

My thanks to everyone who provided their experiences, insight, and recommendations. A special thanks to Tario for his patience in answering myriad questions, and also asking me the right questions. It was between this type of dialog that ultimately helped me make an informed decision. He's the most knowledgeable person I've ever dealt with when purchasing clubs, and I've bought quite a few .

[mygreenaliem]

I have just received my Epon Tour/302 combo and can honestly say they are AMAZINGGGG! I went back to UK over Christmas and tested various shafts and by far the best for me was Nippon promodus 120 in S flex and these have been hard stepped. It was a hard decision between S and X in these shafts and I may change to X but we will see. I have practiced last two days with them and played 9 holes today. I have PW, 9 and 8 in tour and 7 - 4 in 302's. I am finding the shafts are giving great consistant flight and dispersion. The PW in the tour is to die for and I if it were a woman I would do anything for her..... (she is, after all a looker!)

I have come off Miura's with PX 6.0 flex - which i still love too.

[Ironmeister]

I now have this same problem. My current gamer is the titleist 712 mb with modus 3 reg. I bent the MBs to match the lofts of the 302 which I played previously. The Mbs have reasonable bounce so the deloft did not affect playability. Had my first 78 in less than 10 rounds with the titleist...

Then...once again curiosity struck. I picked up the AF tours and put V90s cuz I now wanted to game a premium Japanese blade.

Questions:

1. Would making the AF tour's loft similar to the 302s lead to negative bounce? Unlike the 712 mb the bounce is quite low on the AF tour? Is it a good trade off? I have a steep angle of attack. Any testimonies on like for like distance between the AF tours vs 302 on their natural lofts?

2. A common belief I have is blades only work well with heavy shafts. Did I make a wrong move on the V90? A bit premature but haven't had time to test on the range due to birth of my 2nd boy (subconscious excuse for choosing the smooth swinging V90 flex R). Anyone here have positive experience with blades on lightweight steel?

I should get these answers on the range but time is a luxury I can't afford now.

Appreciate, K

[wedda]

After 3 years - what are your take on these two irons guys? 302's over the AF-tours or the other way around?

I'm going to sell my 501's and either go with the SUS(if i can find them at an good price) - the 302's or the af-tours..

Do you still game yours JBW?

Your input is worthy! =)

[jbird902]

Af tours in the bag all year with Attas 120's. Better for me than the 302's. Very forgiving and I like the thinner sole..

I'm shafting some Af tour cb's with the 120's soon and will report back how they stack up to the originals..

[JBW]

Wedda,

I do still have my 302's and they are and have been my gamers since I bought them. It was love at first strike...lol

Occasionally, I would take a few of my MP-67's, MP-52's and Titleist 990's to the range with me just to compare, and there was never any comparison, my 302's just outperformed them all.

Not sure what it is, they are just made for my swing. In my first season with them, I shot my career low round, a 62 on a par 70 course. Granted, it was during a practice round before a big tournament, but the practice round was a big money game between 20 or so of us, so we played the round as if it was a tournament. Since that 62, I've shot a few 65s, and quite a few -3 and -4 rounds.

This past winter was a long one, so being cooped-up in the house I got "shopping fever" and started looking at other irons. I ended up purchasing a set of Miura MB-5005s from TSG. When they arrived in February, they looked like the "holy grail" of irons and I couldn't wait for the season to start. I purposely waited until a month into the season before I brought them to the range and course, I wanted to ensure I gave them a fair evaluation. After numerous range sessions and rounds since the initial outing, I'm here to say I prefer my 302s. The MB-5005s are no slouch, but I just can't let go of my 302s.

In fact, and this is no lie, just last week I was thinking of purchasing another set of 302s for strategic reserve, just the heads though. I haven't seen the SUS's in person, but they do look very nice. I might even considering getting a set of those heads if I can't find a new set of 302 heads.

And full disclosure, I am not an Epon or Endo employee nor am I paid endorser...lol.

Joe

Edited September 14, 2015 by JBW