ant Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 i appreciate your opinion and sharing your experiences its just the numbers you originally quoted are more like Hogan, Nelson, Demaret kinda numbers and average is average meaning that if you miss 6 one round and then miss 2 the next one then 2 is not the average. i'm not on a holy crusade against longer shafts and if it works for you for whatever reason who am i to tell you otherwise but if you try to justify that with numbers they gonna have to be correct or else it doesnt make much sense. i'm only offering another side to the discussion, whether you or anyone draws any conclusions from my input is entirely up to you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiromikey Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 i appreciate your opinion and sharing your experiences its just the numbers you originally quoted are more like Hogan, Nelson, Demaret kinda numbers and average is average meaning that if you miss 6 one round and then miss 2 the next one then 2 is not the average. i'm not on a holy crusade against longer shafts and if it works for you for whatever reason who am i to tell you otherwise but if you try to justify that with numbers they gonna have to be correct or else it doesnt make much sense. i can appreciate that. honestly, my driving stats are my best stats and i'd typically miss a green from under 100yds before missing a fairway. i go into slumps like everyone else but not that often with the driver. in this past year the only time i've really had any issues with the driver is when i tried the ad di-7 in my new kamui ray. it's probably a great shaft...just not for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supo Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 now THIS is goingto spur thougths on shaft length i bought my 4 yr old daughter a $10 generic "7" iron its not its just a cheap kids club prob about 20 inchs? what ever it is i dont know but it s a kids club so u get the drift. we were playing i nthe garden with it and i was chipping balls to her about 10 feet , ididnt miss one, i dint miss a beat. now i was actually thinking of taking this out to a game and seeing whats what with crazy short shaft length ,designed only for short shots of course, bec the accuracy and distance control just mucking around was eye opening. i guess its like robert garigus playing a 29 inch putter????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swisstrader Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 now THIS is goingto spur thougths on shaft length i bought my 4 yr old daughter a $10 generic "7" iron its not its just a cheap kids club prob about 20 inchs? what ever it is i dont know but it s a kids club so u get the drift. we were playing i nthe garden with it and i was chipping balls to her about 10 feet , ididnt miss one, i dint miss a beat. now i was actually thinking of taking this out to a game and seeing whats what with crazy short shaft length ,designed only for short shots of course, bec the accuracy and distance control just mucking around was eye opening. i guess its like robert garigus playing a 29 inch putter????? Same as choking up on the club. For the most part, that's how I chip...right hand actually on the metal of the shaft. More control that way and less of a tendency to overcook the backswing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 USGA/R&A equipment regulations state that "The overall length of the club must be at least 18 inches (0.457 m)" so i think you all good :) now THIS is goingto spur thougths on shaft length i bought my 4 yr old daughter a $10 generic "7" iron its not its just a cheap kids club prob about 20 inchs? what ever it is i dont know but it s a kids club so u get the drift. we were playing i nthe garden with it and i was chipping balls to her about 10 feet , ididnt miss one, i dint miss a beat. now i was actually thinking of taking this out to a game and seeing whats what with crazy short shaft length ,designed only for short shots of course, bec the accuracy and distance control just mucking around was eye opening. i guess its like robert garigus playing a 29 inch putter????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegaman Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 good point on lie angles tho i'm frankly not following manufacturers logic on that. take ryoma d1 premia for example at 46.5 length and 60 lie angle. for a very tall person that might work great but average height person or somebody with very flat entry how upright is that ? are you supposed to toe it up at address and then the shaft droop would faltten it out prior to impact ? Yeah, I also alsways thought that JDM brands have a really upright lie for woods and a very flat lie for irons..Anyway, a longer shaft will for sure groop more than a short one, and a softer shaft will droop even more again. keeping in mind that the ryoma premia for sure is aimed at slower swinger that need the extra long shaft. So that means 47" and a very soft JDM regular for example. In effect a ladies fles shaft if you cpm it, so the upright lie might be a wise thing. Plus it acts a bit like an antislice thing too. That's why you sometimes see that the "tour" or "pro" model heads have a flatter lie, and also usually with a shorter, stiffer shaft as standard. Sometimes the lie changes with loft too, I remember seeing the 8.5 head being flatter than the higher lofted heads, still the same model head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mygreenaliem Posted June 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Yeah, I also alsways thought that JDM brands have a really upright lie for woods and a very flat lie for irons..Anyway, a longer shaft will for sure groop more than a short one, and a softer shaft will droop even more again. keeping in mind that the ryoma premia for sure is aimed at slower swinger that need the extra long shaft. So that means 47" and a very soft JDM regular for example. In effect a ladies fles shaft if you cpm it, so the upright lie might be a wise thing. Plus it acts a bit like an antislice thing too. That's why you sometimes see that the "tour" or "pro" model heads have a flatter lie, and also usually with a shorter, stiffer shaft as standard. Sometimes the lie changes with loft too, I remember seeing the 8.5 head being flatter than the higher lofted heads, still the same model head. This is useful info indeed - thank you. I have decided to build a driver 43.5 inches long and am in discussions with TSG to help me. I was thinking of making the lie flatter to 58 degrees - I am 5ft 7. Do you think this is flat enough? Current thoughts are to try to get the Epon Zero Head (if epon can make the head heavy enough) and Tario is suggesting the crazy 519 prototype shaft. I really like the Epon Zero and think the shorter shaft will help me find that sweet spot a bit more. Am opening this up for discussion though as other ideas always welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegaman Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 This is useful info indeed - thank you. I have decided to build a driver 43.5 inches long and am in discussions with TSG to help me. I was thinking of making the lie flatter to 58 degrees - I am 5ft 7. Do you think this is flat enough? Current thoughts are to try to get the Epon Zero Head (if epon can make the head heavy enough) and Tario is suggesting the crazy 519 prototype shaft. I really like the Epon Zero and think the shorter shaft will help me find that sweet spot a bit more. Am opening this up for discussion though as other ideas always welcome. Tario can probably help you out with the headweight, you need to get it up in the 205 grams range I suppose? Or maybe even more? The Zero, even though I haven't seen or hit it, seems a perfect candidate for a shorter "control" driver to me. And, again, Tario can probably fix the flatter lie for you too. 58 seems ok, even though I would guess 57 or even 56 would be a better fit for you, keeping your height and the shorter length in mind. It also depends on how you swing, if you have a high hands swing you'd need a more upright lie and vice versa if you keep your hands low through the hitting area. Tario will know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPONfreak Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 You will need SERIOUS club speed to launch the Zero with a 43.5" shaft. Be careful that what you end up with isn't a very accurate driver.........that's 25m shorter distance than your 3 wood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 its pretty much impossible to tell from your height alone because other factors are in play like how long your arms are and your posture and more importantly how flat or upright is your entry into impact. alot and probably majority of people dont match their address position in terms of where their hands end up at impact. i dont think anybody can do a proper static fit for that. launch monitor can help but lie angle with a driver being slightly off isnt that big of a deal as you have very little loft, no turf interaction to worry about (hopefully) and that can is being deep faced enough. if you were going for a shallow head that you gonna be planning on using off the deck as well thats a different story. there is very little room for adjustment, how much flatter can they make that zero for you couple of degrees max?, so unless you wanna try to torch bend $1399 driver you aint got much choice to get the right lie angle anyway. I have decided to build a driver 43.5 inches long and am in discussions with TSG to help me. I was thinking of making the lie flatter to 58 degrees - I am 5ft 7. Do you think this is flat enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mygreenaliem Posted June 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 I have looked into the Epon Zero but they can't make a head heavy enough so having had discussion with Tario have gone for the following: Kamui Works silver 420, 212g head, 1 deg open, 10 degrees loft, 58 deg lie Crazy 519 proto 43.5 inches tipped Swing weight 2.5 Will be interesting to see how this one pans out. Am also re-shafting my Epon Zero with diamana x cut to 44.25 so wil compare against my Yama tour head with diama x which I am loving! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 after reading this thread...i made the shift to a shorter driver and am loving the results....my head wasnt heavy enough (202g) so i went with a fairly heavy shaft (88g) and have the set up at 44.5" unfinished.....i choke up about half to 3/4" and am bombing the club....I have so much more control to hit fades and draws with this length club.....A 46.5" the ball goes further but i have much much less control which is perfect for a bomber's course but tree lined courses become nightmares !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mygreenaliem Posted June 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Hey Robbie, that's very interesting indeed. Thanks for posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-500 Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 I have looked into the Epon Zero but they can't make a head heavy enough so having had discussion with Tario have gone for the following: Kamui Works silver 420, 212g head, 1 deg open, 10 degrees loft, 58 deg lie Crazy 519 proto 43.5 inches tipped Swing weight 2.5 Will be interesting to see how this one pans out. Am also re-shafting my Epon Zero with diamana x cut to 44.25 so wil compare against my Yama tour head with diama x which I am loving! So how are all the head and shaft changes going? Obviously we need pictures too :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supo Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 its a pretty big change right? doent take long to get used to looking at the club shorter and lookiing at spots on the fairway spcifically, not just"out there somewhere" the tree lined courses are perfect for these drivers, to me they look like hitting a 3 wood every hole. distance but with control. even 1/2 inch makes a big differnce. that 10.5* kamui pro with GD p9003x has become my safety club. gets another session this weekend at a very tree lined beauty of a course thats at altitude right under mt fuji so distacne is much less important bec the ball flies so much longer, but get off the tee well and your laughing!. i tink im going to cut hte ryoma down to 44.5 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerobound Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Yup.. You will lose head speed, but depending on how consistent your ball striking was, you will actually gain some yardage (on average) by hitting it in the sweet spot every time! The hard thing is to find the most efficient length, where you can maximize swing speed while hitting it in the center every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supo Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 yes and get the weight right.. its ok to just say ok build this to d2.5 but that might need tip weights, gel shots, lead tape. the thicker the shafts u got he less "feel" u get so it kinda hurts all that is good in JDM feel. lord knows ive tried to get it perfect. still not there yet. i do know in my heart tho that 44.5 and 45.25 are the perfect length, the 45.25 i can get toe hang which i like on some clubs like the yammy tour, 45.5 is too much and 45 isnt quite enough 44.5 im at the end of the butt and i get great control. weird, but thats how i play best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mygreenaliem Posted July 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 I just got notice that my Kamui custom with Crazy proto shaft built to 43.5 is on its way to me. Can't wait and so will post pics and report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 44.5 is the shortest I would ever consider. I stick to 45" usually. It depends on how center you hit it as well. If you miss center often shorter will serve you. If your like Xerobound (Tatsuro) u can go beyond 46 and still hit the center all day. Shaft design also plays a factor as well. Some of the crazys feel better and perform better a bit long by design. Lastly what course your up against is something that should be factored in. Is it wide open with few placement requirements or is it narrow and tricky. I know without doubt a 46" shaft feels better kick wise and is longer but I do value accuracy so I tend to split it down the middle with a reliable 45". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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