Seems that everyone believes Epon is the best manufactuer on the market. Help me understand why as I want to fall in love!

Edited September 12, 201212 yr by Henry

Try then and you will know........

I think its a combination of the best materials, expert design team, cutting edge forging facility and, I would say, no real pressure to turn a huge quarterly profit. Or any profit at all even. I think they do good business anyway, but they for sure don't bring a whole lot to Endos' bottom line, so if they are profitable or not is really not important.

What is more important, I'm just guessing here, is that they have the best tolerances, materials etc etc..Like it's the pride of Endo that is at stake, and for certain companies in certain cultures that is worth quite a lot in itself.

Compare with Bugatti, VW will never make a profit from selling Veyrons, even at 1 million+ pounds per car, but there's a halo effect. Although Endo does not seem to worried about Epon not being that well known outside JDM golf circles, ha ha. I get the feeling they are doing these clubs to please themselves, there own ego or something?

Reminds me of a story I heard about Japan Steel Works, the only company in the world that can forge one piece steel vessels with no welds, weighing 600 hundred tons (if I remember correctly) used to house nuclear reactors. They also still have a "division" with a handful of craftsmen forging traditional samurai swords..Does not make any business sense of course, but apparenlty it's important to them?

Edit: Found some cool info here: http://en.wikipedia....pan_Steel_Works

Edited September 12, 201212 yr by Vegaman

Vegaman sums it up pretty well.

I think a big factor is that Epon is not chasing market share or sales.

Vegaman sums it up pretty well.

I think a big factor is that Epon is not chasing market share or sales.

Would Kyoei be in the same boat?

Who are the other forgers that have in house brands?

Edited September 12, 201212 yr by RIduffer

Vegaman nailed it in the head!

To those that haven't tried it, you must demo

Some

Would Kyoei be in the same boat?

Who are the other forgers that have in house brands?

The closest Kyoei would have is the Zestaim line I suppose? But even though the Zestaims look nice and are probably very very well made, Kyoei does not seem to be THAT interested in creating a brand with the staying power of Epon. More like they might come up with a different in-house name and line down the road and drop the Zestaim name along the way. But I might be wrong, and Zestaim will be around for a looong time.

The closest Kyoei would have is the Zestaim line I suppose? But even though the Zestaims look nice and are probably very very well made, Kyoei does not seem to be THAT interested in creating a brand with the staying power of Epon. More like they might come up with a different in-house name and line down the road and drop the Zestaim name along the way. But I might be wrong, and Zestaim will be around for a looong time.

Looking at your sig, you have nothing from epon...

The reason I ask is that I am playing the RomaRo, am told forged by Kyoei, and think they might get the nod over the Personals. Admittedly I do not have the rounds in with the Personals yet, buy will be a good fight.

So Kyoei is capable, but am curious about others too... Is it truly cultural as the OP implies or just the corporate culture at Endo???

Sorry to disagree but I think Epon's iron range is too closely focused on mid/high handicappers! Until they offer a non-offset club, I won't be going back there.

I won't argue on the feel though (very buttery).

Pete

Looking at your sig, you have nothing from epon...

Ha ha, I know but I have hit Epons many times, I can see some 302s in my future. But I do have the 210kgx I got from you in the bag! My Vega blades are treating me very nicely at the moment though.

Besides, is a bag full of Epon required to comment on why Epon is considered top quality clubs? My "views" are also largely guesswork, something I freely admit in my posts BTW, things I've learned from people I respect, read on forums like this one and so on.

Edited September 13, 201212 yr by Vegaman

The reason I ask is that I am playing the RomaRo, am told forged by Kyoei, and think they might get the nod over the Personals. Admittedly I do not have the rounds in with the Personals yet, buy will be a good fight.

So Kyoei is capable, but am curious about others too... Is it truly cultural as the OP implies or just the corporate culture at Endo???

From what I know there aren't any other "house brands" from the larges forging houses? Miura of course, since they forge their clubs themselves.. The company that forges Mizuno, forge clubs for Mizuno only if I'm not remembering wrongly?

I play Vega at the moment, and they (supposedly) used to be the house brand of Kyoei, but after what Tourspecgolfer has informed me, there was a very messy soap opera style divorce in the company resulting in Vega now buying their heads from Kyoei like many others. This doesn't bother me since I think the quality will be there anyway.

ireally like the kyoei stuff... but they were so damn slow...!

ive had heaps of thier wedges , esp the rafw08 which.....

take everyone dooooooooooooooown toooooooooooooooown in the spin department.

man they shred balls!

and those baldes i had were top stuff.

quite a bit more solid feeling than epon, but certianly NOT in a bad way .

The quality... you can feel when you compare to even other forged clubs. They pride themselves in creating great product and don't focus heavily on going mainstream and or selling to the masses. They produce products that a true enthusiast will appreciate. The best way to find out is to try on side by side with other equipment and feel for yourself. :)

The quality... you can feel when you compare to even other forged clubs. They pride themselves in creating great product and don't focus heavily on going mainstream and or selling to the masses. They produce products that a true enthusiast will appreciate. The best way to find out is to try on side by side with other equipment and feel for yourself. :)

Agreed that trying side by side is the best way, but at >$1k per set and no demo clubs available makes doing so a very expensive proposition.

$1k per set! Please tell me where you're buying!, they're getting my business!

Joking aside its a great point, we're completely neglected in Oz so I'm always taking a punt when buying. This has resulted in me absolutely trusting Epon products, they've never let me down.

$1k per set! Please tell me where you're buying!, they're getting my business!

Joking aside its a great point, we're completely neglected in Oz so I'm always taking a punt when buying. This has resulted in me absolutely trusting Epon products, they've never let me down.

did you miss the > sign in my post? I think Supo is the only one that is not deterred by the buy and try method…

It gets worse for me as my builder does clubs based on MOI instead of SW so any set I get is pulled apart and reassembled if I like the standard build. Not to mention the incremental for the graphite shafts I use in the irons… So either I gamble with ~$2k or spend ~$3k total after trying the standard set...

The only option I have found in the States is a guy in the Bay Area that has a high end club rotational loaner program...

There are dealers in the United States (or at least there used to be) that you can demo Epons. I did before I bought a set.

The other marker for their popularity is that if you go down the 'buy and try' road, the resell value means you won't take a big hit....

unlike a lot of US brands.

ireally like the kyoei stuff... but they were so damn slow...!

ive had heaps of thier wedges , esp the rafw08 which.....

take everyone dooooooooooooooown toooooooooooooooown in the spin department.

man they shred balls!

and those baldes i had were top stuff.

quite a bit more solid feeling than epon, but certianly NOT in a bad way .

I'll put my Tourstage Endo forged X-Wedges up against ANY wedge including your Kyoei for shredding balls - NOTHING touches the X-Wedge razor grooves for shearing balls.

did you miss the > sign in my post? I think Supo is the only one that is not deterred by the buy and try method…

It gets worse for me as my builder does clubs based on MOI instead of SW so any set I get is pulled apart and reassembled if I like the standard build. Not to mention the incremental for the graphite shafts I use in the irons… So either I gamble with ~$2k or spend ~$3k total after trying the standard set...

The only option I have found in the States is a guy in the Bay Area that has a high end club rotational loaner program...

They do exist, meaning fitters of high end JDM gear and they're scattered throughout the US. My fitter in NJ was voted one or the 100 best fitters in the US and he does mainly JDM. He has a fitting center that puts the Nike Oven to shame. Doesn't carry certain brands like Ryoma or Kamui, but enough other stuff to keep my interest.

They're out there, just need to do a bit of searching.

My fitter also was top 100. The extent of his JDM is, wait for it, Miura... I don't live in a market where enough think it is worthwhile... So need to drive a couple of hours at a minimum.... I know they are out there, but not easy enough to get to/find for me... Buy and try, while expensive has been fun...

They do exist, meaning fitters of high end JDM gear and they're scattered throughout the US. My fitter in NJ was voted one or the 100 best fitters in the US and he does mainly JDM. He has a fitting center that puts the Nike Oven to shame. Doesn't carry certain brands like Ryoma or Kamui, but enough other stuff to keep my interest.

They're out there, just need to do a bit of searching.

Details please...

I'll put my Tourstage Endo forged X-Wedges up against ANY wedge including your Kyoei for shredding balls - NOTHING touches the X-Wedge razor grooves for shearing balls.

The X wedges eat balls no doubt. I have a set and are still one of my favorites but..... they are no match when it comes to shredding compared to my GF wedges.

Back on topic... What everyone has said IMO is pretty much spot on. The 302's are starting year 3 now as a current model. A testament to their

designs and a sign they're not just chasing the $ by releasing new model after new model after........