"Pay it Forward" Club Evaluation Network

[MoreBeerBetterGolf]

Fellow TSG'ers,

I was wanting to put together a group of reputable TSG members who would be interested in forming a network in which each member buys a finished club(s) that they have been interested in trying. Once they have evaluated it, they will then make it available to the network to be passed around and evaluated, a week or two at a time.

I think this would be an outstanding way to get to try the products we find most interesting without having to gamble on buying a whole set. Granted not every build is going to suit every individual in the network, I understand that, but a lot of general impressions can be gathered from trying a club even if it isn't set up perfectly for the person using it.

Tario has been gracious enough to sponsor the program by offering a special price on finished clubs to be used in the network testing.

I would like to do this on the honor system, but I also have considered a system in which each person "buys" the club from the previous tester via paypal, then is "reimbursed" when they pass it onto the next interested tester or back to the original owner.

There would need to be some basic rules, and I have thought of a few:

1) To be in the network and eligible to receive a club to try, you must always have a demo club available for others to try. So let's say I ordered a 7i from the RomaRo Pro Forged set and then decided I liked it so much I wanted to buy all the other irons to make a set. That would take my demo club out of the network, thus I would need to replace it.

2) Any incidental damage to a club like a torn up grip, etc. should be fixed in a timely manner before sending the club on. If serious damage were to occur, the owner of the club should be contacted immediately and fair restitution made. Accidents do happen but whoever is in possession of the club is entirely responsible for it.

3) The owner will be notified each time one of their clubs changes hands even if it is the 37th time it has been paid forward. It would be disconcerting to want a club back and have to track it down thru every person had it. The club should probably have the owner's info on it maybe on one of those little shaft bands or something.

4) Each person in the network would have a spot in their WITB or sig stating which demo club they were in possession of and testing, and which demo club they owned and had available for testing. This would help with communication and knowing who had what clubs.

5) There would be a closed forum on this board available only to those in the network solely for the purpose of organizing club trials and communication amongst network members. All relevant club performance reviews, discussion, opinions, should be housed in an open "Pay it Forward" forum where all TSG members and lurkers can read about the clubs being tested.

I am sure there are other things to discuss as well. I am not sure how to necessarily qualify people to be in it. If we did the paid for version it wouldn't be as big of a deal but if we do the honor system I would think at the very least we would want a couple of 3rd party vouches and an eBay profile for feedback. I know we have a good group here on TSG but a club inevitably will disappear and I am trying to think of what the best way to handle that is.

I would like your thoughts and ideas as well as I would love to get something like this going, especially with all the great new stuff coming out.

[Ian-500]

Sounds like a great idea in theory. All the i's need to be dotted and the t's crossed because as you've alluded to, as soon as 1 club goes 'missing' the whole thing COULD come crashing down.

I'm still interested though :)

[swisstrader]

I think it's a great idea. Might want to start with a hot driver initially (easier to ship than a set of irons) and see how the experiment goes.

The other thought would be for "members" to put up X amount of money each to buy clubs and then have a pool of cash to be able to do so, then create a list of clubs that are out there and put it to a vote of which clubs members want to test.

Should also set up a timeline of say 2-3 weeks before a member has to ship to the next member and would also need a lottery to determine the order of who gets what when. Also need to insure each time you ship because most problems with clubs will be with lost or damaged in shipping vs on the golf course.

We should also think through what happens if you fall in love with the club...theoretically could mean that you simply order whatever you're interested in from TSG and move the club forward.

[RIduffer]

We talking single clubs or whole sets?

If we are talking single clubs, maybe we could just set up an escrow account that everyone pays into as "insurance". I think the constant Paypal would become problematic.

Not to exclude people, but are we talking about a global group or what, as shipping internationally as well as potential customs charges could become an issue?

I'm likely in… Even have a first club to add to the rotation… Epon Personal 9 iron… Had it stolen, T sourced a replacement and the original was subsequently returned to me a little worse for wear...

[Ian-500]

We talking single clubs or whole sets?

If we are talking single clubs, maybe we could just set up an escrow account that everyone pays into as "insurance". I think the constant Paypal would become problematic.

Not to exclude people, but are we talking about a global group or what, as shipping internationally as well as potential customs charges could become an issue?

I'm likely in… Even have a first club to add to the rotation… Epon Personal 9 iron… Had it stolen, T sourced a replacement and the original was subsequently returned to me a little worse for wear...

Good point. Probably best to keep it in the US first and see how it goes.

[jaygolf]

Great idea!

Like Ian mentioned, it would probably be a good idea to keep it within reasonable distance. Not just for shipping cost purposes but also import taxes. Unless there's a way to label it as a sample, in that case I think VAT is avoided.

Another way would be to perhaps have seperate groups. One in the US, one in OZ...and hopefully if the numbers are there, one in the EU.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

If someone can organize it and keep it rolling not only will we create a closed forum but also a registration page, escrow or paypal account and throw in thousands of dollars in demo clubs.

What we have had issues with in the past is keeping track of who has what, who's next, and where it all ends up.

[RIduffer]

If someone can organize it and keep it rolling not only will we create a closed forum but also a registration page, escrow or paypal account and throw in thousands of dollars in demo clubs.

What we have had issues with in the past is keeping track of who has what, who's next, and where it all ends up.

That is a very generous offer Chris.

[idrive]

I did this with a Epon AF-302 - 7 iron a few years a go when they first came out. Chris had given me one to

demo so when I was done I offered it out. I kept track of it for almost 2 years as it shipped around the world. I lost

track when I took off (disappeared) for a while....... :)

Lot of work keeping track, setting up the next guy, time frame(s), this is the tough one as people don't move as fast

as they're supposed to. Having their builder be slow was the #1 delay as folks wanted to try their shaft in it. It's still

floating around here in the states I believe.

Anyway...... I'd love to demo...... anything and everything

[marmaduk]

this is an awesome idea!

[DaleUK]

yes I have to agree ,it sounds Brilliant!!

[bogeydog]

I will do the tracking for the first year provided I am first in line.

[MoreBeerBetterGolf]

Maybe we could find someone to build us a "find my golf club" program like the iPhone has?

I am willing to take on a lot of the responsibility of doing this as well, since it was my idea and because I think it would be a great deal if we can get it streamlined and organized so it isn't a big cluster once it gets going.

It would be relatively simple to lay out a grid schedule and assign a first club to each member, distribute the grid to each member with everyone's name and address, so it would be easy to A) See what club was coming next and B) See to who and where you need to ship the club you have. I would also assign dates to the grid/schedule so each person got an allotted time with each club, then it would be marked like a calendar showing when it needed to be moved on. Once the calendar was laid out it probably would be easy enough to have automatic email reminders set up to go out to all members reminding them to send off their club. I think each person should just be responsible for paying the shipping for when they send each club off.

To address some of the questions above, I don't think full sets of clubs would be feasible, I was just thinking single clubs. The reasoning behind everyone choosing one specifically and buying it would be that at least it would have a home instead of building a bunch of "stock" type irons that in the end aren't really suited...to anyone. Of course if Chris is willing to throw in a bunch of clubs then in that case I'm pretty much fine with whatever we were to get.

I don't think it would be difficult to pull together a comprehensive list of the irons most would want to try. Most of the usual suspects, along with the interesting new releases would sure be a good start. 6 or 7 irons and any 50 thru 56 degree wedges would be my personal choices.

My original thought as well was that it may be difficult to do this internationally due to shipping costs, transit time, customs issues, etc. If we were able to form "continental" groups and then divide the available demo clubs into how ever many groups we have and rotate them all at once it would end up working out pretty well I think.

I would have to think that it wouldn't be terribly hard to put this together in a reasonable amount of time if we can get a head count and figure out a few of the details.

[RIduffer]

I'm in…

One more nuance that will need to be dealt with is skip weeks. Between the vacations people take and some of us travel for work, you will need a way to handle going out of rotation but being able to get back into line again...

[potuna]

Great idea, I agree it should be broken down to US, OZ, Far East and EU. Another issue that will come up is shaft flex and length, irons would be easier if it was just 7 iron.

[swisstrader]

Great idea, I agree it should be broken down to US, OZ, Far East and EU. Another issue that will come up is shaft flex and length, irons would be easier if it was just 7 iron.

Yes, but not fair cuz any region that has Stew in it will have 1000 times more clubs to access...where is that emoji for sticking tongue out?

[potuna]

Stew is the club, he doesn't need us.

[supo]

hhaahhahaha know i like that idea ...,

a can add my own pieces as to what other say,, its hard to get dialogue going on gear when theres only one or 2 guys hitting it, ths way everyone gets to hi what ive prob hit and the threads are gong to e much more robust....

great idea.

[bigrin]

marvellous idea.

Would also be in.

[gocchin]

As I had mentioned to Matt, we have already done this in the past... I circulated 3 Ryoma drivers globally last year and they all returned safe and sound.

This included all around the US, Europe and throughout Asia.

Complete sets is probably not the way to go because shipping costs a lot... for everyone.

The best bet would be getting iron demos... as Matt said a 7 iron.

This is the way it worked with the Ryomas:

Members and customers contacted me directly and I managed the logistics by coordinating the clubs location and where it would go next because the truth is not everyone knows each other or communicates with each other but TSG is the common denominator. So yes I did in fact do all the tracking of the clubs and arranging of their courses... this could change if there are a lot of clubs out there.

So for example I have a list of people wanting to try, members A B C D E F etc... currently member A has the demo.

I let member A know that it will go next to member B and provide member A with member B's address. Member A ships to member B who will now have the demo for a week. Member C is someone new to the forum and has never bought from us before so as insurance I take a credit card deposit from Member C then let member B know its going to member C's address next. Once member C confirms with me he is done with the club and member D confirms receipt I cancel the card deposit.

This is what I did with the 3 Ryomas which worked out fine. Now as I mentioned if we end up having 10+ different demos circulating it becomes a lot harder to manage and organize.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

while it sounds fun and is a good program as Tario mentioned it was a fair amount of work for just 3 drivers.

I can easily picture 20+ clubs floating around at any single moment so the person who is keeping track of all this would have to be commited in seeing things through till the very end.

Now lets say this person gets injured or goes on an extended leave, the demo system stops dead in its tracks and then we would have to have all clubs returned, refund deposits and stop the system.

It's not good for TSG to announce, promote and setup a system and then IF the person who was in charge of it decides meh, I don't wanna do this anymore decides to stop it makes TSG look flakey.

Im not closed to this, I just want the person who is in charge to understand it will take consistent effort and organization. Of course we can compensate that person for running it smoothly over various periods of time for their work.

iPhone/ Android app is out of the question due to cost and updating.

So understanding that who would like to volunteer to keep track of things? What do you suggest as a deposit amount? Should it be a different amount for iron/wedges vs drivers?

[Miuramaniac]

Sounds good! Count me in. It gets pretty expensive trying stuff out and not liking it. Then what, Ebay? No, thanks. BST? Better. But would rather be able to try it out first.

[MoreBeerBetterGolf]

Just revisiting this thread. I still want to get this going. I think bogey and I can handle the tracking of it, anyone else wanting to volunteer is more than welcome.

I would like to start generating a list of interested parties and their locations. I would also like to generate a list of "clubs of interest."

I also think we should start fleshing out the $$$ aspect of this, the deposit amounts or whatever. Looking for ideas here.

It will take a bit of work to get this going, but I know a lot of us would prefer not to take 100's of dollars of hit on our mistakes, and this is a good way to avoid some of that through actual evaluation.

[RIduffer]

Still in.

[gocchin]

I'm putting something together as a contribution from TSG.

Of course we must consider this from a business standpoint and as our customers we would very much like you to purchase clubs from TSG. (^_^)

So I am seeing what demos I can throw together but will need some time to organize.

Need to figure out how to keep them in reasonably good condition....