Battle for the Bag. Decision 2013: Forged Iron Shootout (New Pics 2/15)

[MoreBeerBetterGolf]

BACKGROUND INFO:

Some of you may be familiar with me and some of you not so much, but I am a relative new comer to the JDM scene, but I have embraced it with much gusto.

Long story short, I have worked my way through a lot of different highly regarded irons and shafts in the last couple of years. For 2013, I have a couple of pretty different iron types that will be competing for a spot in the bag. By "in the bag" I mean the ones I play when money is on the line.

A little about me: I am 31, 6' tall, 205 lbs, currently swinging standard length 6i about 94 and driver about 109-112. Higher launch and spin than ideal but working on it. I play 1/2" under standard US length, sounds weird I know but it works. I went through a rough patch this past playing season following some snowboarding injuries sustained last February, but I can safely say now that my ball striking is bar none the best it has ever been, meaning I am rarely missing the sweet spot of any iron I hit. I am sure it will be gone by the time real golf starts, but for now I am in a zone, so to speak. :)

The Irons:

I got my long-awaited OnOff Forged today, shafted with UST Recoil 110 F4. These are going head to head with the Epon Personals shafted with Aerotech i110S.

But it doesn't end there...I've been fortunate enough to become acquainted with a local shop that is carrying OnOff, Miura, RomaRo, Yururi, Kyoei, etc. So now when I go hang out at the range or launch monitor or simulator, I can play with all their demo clubs as well. Their management is all Asian, and they are very much into my clubs I bring in as they really don't know any other locals that play Japanese clubs. We've bonded.

Of course, like a kid at Christmas I threw the package of clubs in the backseat of my truck along with my personals and headed to the facility to beat balls all afternoon.

When I got there, my newfound friend couldn't wait to help me unpackage the new OnOff Forged and take a look at them. I wanted to start hitting them right away so he had the monitor all set up and ready to go for me. In the meantime, he went and got his Kyoei Zestaim irons and brought them out for me to try as well. They had Modus 3 S in them standard Japanese length. They are the ones shown in this link:

http://www.tourspecg...roducts_id=4563

Initial Thoughts:

I hit way too many balls today, and I am going to be incredibly sore by tomorrow night, but it was a result of even the high expectations I had for the OnOff/Recoil pairing being exceeded by a wide margin. I just couldn't put them away and go home!

Disclaimer: Some things did not go right today: For some reason we were having some trouble with the monitors picking up the club head on the OnOff/Recoil...he thought it was the reflective shaft messing with the eyes. Didn't matter what system we were on, it would show the face to be either way open or closed, and the shot height to be almost impossibly high. Distance seemed pretty close, but the system showed everything as a 20 yard pull with the OnOffs. I was pretty concerned at first, because I knew I was catching them quite square but was getting awful results on the monitors. Wish we had a Trackman to pick it up but we didn't. I was getting some high shots with strange fade spin midway through the flight causing about a 15 yard sudden fade shift at the apex of the ball flight due to these misreadings.

I started out hitting the OnOffs, well, trying to anyways. They are a couple SW points lighter than my Personal build, Mr. Ennis at UST said the heads were awfully light and he didn't feel he could go any heavier. So about my first 10 swings I topped the ball and felt like it was my first time swinging an iron. After that I slowed down a bit and got the first taste of a pured OnOff Forged, which has to be amongst the softest feeling irons every created. I swear anything within 1/4" of the sweetspot feels like you just mashed the cover off of it. Very very gratifying. Now I know what everyone that has played OnOff Forged means when they say these are soft.

In the meantime, my boy brought out all the RomaRo demo heads he had that he is going to shaft up next week...the Ray V, Ray H, and the CX. Can't wait to hit those! Of course it will probably end up costing me money. :(

I grabbed my Personal 6i to do some comparisons and was just hitting everything out of the middle of the clubface. There is something about the loading of the shaft, SW, head feel, etc that makes me pure them almost every swing. It's uncanny. I figured the OnOffs would be considerably longer due to the stronger lofts, but with my Personals at 2* strong, the distance was actually quite close. The Personals spun more, leading to an overall higher trajectory, but only about 8 yards distance difference per club.

Going a little deeper:

Given that a lot of parameters were thrown off tonight because of mechanical issues, I don't think posting numbers would really do much good. But my findings are that the 2013 OnOff Forged are incredbily soft, incredibly easy to hit, and more compact and easier to look at at address than I expected. The Recoil shaft is very playful. It seems like the easier I swing the farther and hotter these clubs seem. The Personal/Aerotechs are heavy like an ax and they just feel like, "hit me, hit me as hard as you can!" whereas the OnOff/Recoil seem more like, "Take a nice smooth swing and let the club do the work." As far as feel goes, the OnOff are certainly softer, and it isn't really close. Now don't get me wrong, it isn't like the Epons don't feel good because they do. They feel REAL good. The OnOff are just more that marshmallow on a stick whereas the Personals are that dense tackhammer pounding a brad nail into a stud feel. Both very good just in different ways.

Hitting them outside was much different story than the monitors. The Personals launched a bit higher and landed a bit softer, my guess due to spin and loft. The OnOff had a flatter ball flight. Both were just dead straight every time I hit them. If anything I pull the OnOffs just a tad which I will have to adjust for in the future. I have to be careful with my tempo and swing with the OnOffs than I do the Personals, I guess just due to weight and shaft profile? I was hitting Top Flite range balls and the OnOffs still felt like a marshmallow. Insane.

Kyoei Zestaim Rocks:

The surprise of the night was getting to hit the Kyoei that he brought out. I was so engrossed in hitting my irons I didn't want to waste precious stamina on his clubs, but I decided to hit 8-10 shots to see what they were like. What were they like, you ask? BUTTTTTTER. People...if you are looking for a forgiving player's cavity back with incredibly soft feel and gresat dispersion, this combo was incredible. I don't know if they were quite as soft as the OnOff, but they sure were in the same league. They set up very similar, similar soles, cavity depth, etc. I was incredibly impressed with the Zestaim irons/Modus combo. They were a bit high due to the Modus shaft for me but still very very good. I actually was getting my best numbers with those clubs, I hate to say. Not as long as OnOff but a little tighter ball flight. I think a little more getting used to the graphite and weight on the OnOffs will do wonders. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend those Kyoei to anyone. Great great club.

If someone put a gun to my head tonight and made me pick a set of these irons...I'd probably say pull the trigger. I am sure on Off (onoff?) days the OnOff and Zestaim are gonna be nice. For whatever reason (probably because it doesn't matter this time of year) I can't miss the middle of the club so they all seem awesome right now.

Looking Forward:

I look forward to getting some Trackman time with these irons and getting some concrete numbers to look at. The Recoil shafts seem to be real spin killers with a great mid ball flight. He was only getting 4500-4800 rpm spin with a 6i OnOff! His numbers were right around 6k with the Personal or Kyoei. My 6i spin # is 5800-6000 with the Onoff/Recoil, so they were perfect for me.

I took some (bad) pictures of the clubs and some #s. Keep in mind the face angle and spin #s on the simulators were off. Distance, head speed, ball speed, etc seemed pretty correct. The monitor #s were with a Personal 7i and OnOff 7i. The higher spin shorter distance was the Personal, other the OnOff. Orange ferrule is Personal, black is OnOff. Complete with sideways pic fail! It will be easier for you to turn your head/screen than for me to edit these damned things.

I look forward to updating this thread as these new irons are built and I can get more data compiled. Hopefully it will help everyone out a little bit!

Edited February 16, 2013 by MoreBeerBetterGolf

[Spoon]

nice one matt! im surprised how the personals are keeping up with your onoff thats almost a club longer.

awesome reviews buddy!

[chiromikey]

thanks for the review matt. i'll be looking forward to updates!

[vanla01]

Great write up Matt, looking forward to see which irons you pick for this up coming season!! I would love to try the Onoffs, you can always send them to Colorado. :P

Edited February 15, 2013 by vanla01

[panicmotion]

where are you going for this?

[potuna]

Let me know if you want to move the Onoff's anytime soon. If not I'll be getting some.

[supo]

to thoughts there.

well............ ive hears everyone say the onoffs are the softest. but a lot more than the epons is striking.

i might have to ahve a rumble with the mtomorrow at the show. along with plenty of others.

come on,, 1 set . for the year. which is it??

Edited February 15, 2013 by supo67

[DaleUK]

Very good write up!!

Loving the feed back on the Onoff's

( might have to part with my Yams)

[EdGolf]

First great write up and thanks for sharing.... Interesting comments for sure on the Onoff... Do you think the Recoil in the Onoff is helping it to feel a lot softer than Personals?

[Ian-500]

Great comparison. Looking forward to your game time review. For me, everything seems to play a little differently out on the course compared to the range. Keep up the good work and upload some more piccies!

[RIduffer]

Great write-up. Not surprised by the Kyoei softness, or that the ONOFF are as soft or softer than the Personals. Personals are a denser feel, the ONOFF. at least the '12s that I hit were marshmallows. The RomaRo are a great balance between, which is consistent with your Kyoei thoughts.

Good luck deciding.

[Miuramaniac]

Great write-up, thanks. But all I can think of when I see those Personals is that a baby is about to pop out any minute.

[MoreBeerBetterGolf]

where are you going for this?

Just Fore Fun Golf in Champaign, IL. They are a TSG account. I do a lot of work in the Champaign area so it works out well to sneak down once a week.

Let me know if you want to move the Onoff's anytime soon. If not I'll be getting some.

You should probably go ahead and order some, I don't see these coming up for sale. :)

to thoughts there.

well............ ive hears everyone say the onoffs are the softest. but a lot more than the epons is striking.

i might have to ahve a rumble with the mtomorrow at the show. along with plenty of others.

come on,, 1 set . for the year. which is it??

It's a different type of feel...hard to really describe. Hit em, see what you think. I think maybe for some they'd almost be "mushy" soft? I know T said the face milling seems to give the irons he's tried a little softer feeling. I would hit the OnOff 5-6 times and just think that was the greatest feel you could get, then go back to the Personal and think, well maybe I like THIS feel better, then hit the Kyoei and think, well maybe I like THIS feel better. I do have to say the hype about them being super soft is very true, who knows it may be too soft for some. If I had to pick one today I can't honestly say. Love them all but need to see more turf/outdoor performance. Normally I'm a "if I don't love it the first 3 seconds" I move on kind of guy but it's like trying to choose between supermodels.

First great write up and thanks for sharing.... Interesting comments for sure on the Onoff... Do you think the Recoil in the Onoff is helping it to feel a lot softer than Personals?

I'm not sure. I have been thinking about it quite a bit, I have similar shafts in them as far as weight and flex. No doubt the Aero is a little stouter shaft. But when you catch an iron flush 50 times vs another iron flush 50 times, it's my humble opinion that the shaft is a small part of that impact feel relative to the head. Obviously on mis**ts a harsh shaft will feel much harsher...but usually even a harsh shaft feels good when you pure one. So my thinking it just that maybe the shaft is a small part of it, the face milling a small part of it, and the head design part of it.

Again, just because I said they feel softer doesn't necessarily mean they feel better. :)

Great comparison. Looking forward to your game time review. For me, everything seems to play a little differently out on the course compared to the range. Keep up the good work and upload some more piccies!

The light was weird in the studio, and it was cloudy/snowy yesterday afternoon, and I knew the pics wouldn't be very good but I didnt realize how bad they were until I got them on the computer. I was even making sure they focused before snapping them but that light isn't photo friendly I guess.

Great write-up. Not surprised by the Kyoei softness, or that the ONOFF are as soft or softer than the Personals. Personals are a denser feel, the ONOFF. at least the '12s that I hit were marshmallows. The RomaRo are a great balance between, which is consistent with your Kyoei thoughts.

Good luck deciding.

Yeah I am excited to hit the RomaRos as well. I'd have to say the Zestaims are deserving of much more praise than they get here that's for sure. They just have the addictive feel that makes you want to keep hitting balls long after you should have headed home.

Great write-up, thanks. But all I can think of when I see those Personals is that a baby is about to pop out any minute.

10 years and a couple later...

[stevopagolf]

I had a set of the Zestaim's a few years back and the dumbest thing I did was sell them off.

Will be interested to see what you think of the Romaro CX's. They look like a contender for a CB...

Good stuff1

[swisstrader]

Great write up Matt. Best test will be to see how they both play on the course. Easy to get caught up in all the data and launch monitors as I'm sure you know, but ultimate test will be the golf course.

Gee, only about 2 more months for the winter thaw! As spoken by a guy sitting in Miami Beach in 80* weather:) Played my Personals down here for the last few days and they felt great. Still need to determine whether or not to keep the Monacos in them or switch to Aerotechs but will wait until my swing is grooved in the springtime.

Edited February 15, 2013 by swisstrader

[MoreBeerBetterGolf]

I love the Aerotech/Personal combo but if the Monacos are working I wouldn't make the switch. Because then you would want to pull the Aerotechs if you liked the Mons better, and it is hard to pull Aeros without runining the tip on them. I know it's in our nature to fiddle around but that's one thing I would leave alone if you're loading them well, they feel good, and perform well.

I was joking around yesterday I am either ready for some real winter weather like 0* F and snow or just for spring to get here already. It's been November here since October. Tired of 25-35* and cloudy.

[Miuramaniac]

That was a good one, Beer. lol

BTW, I just got some of those non-offset Miura PP-9003's shafted up and hit 'em once so far. Really nice. Hated the originals cuz of the offset, which you also didn't like, and they look MUCH better. Pretty easy to hit as well. My game's been really bad so the Baby Blades are gonna see some down time.

[MoreBeerBetterGolf]

Yeah I would be interested to hit those again without the offset. A mashed shot with those was pretty nice.

[Baddmnkey]

First great write up and thanks for sharing.... Interesting comments for sure on the Onoff... Do you think the Recoil in the Onoff is helping it to feel a lot softer than Personals?

I can attest to the 2013 ONOFF's softness, unreal. I have the ONOFFs w/ Aerotech and Personals w/ Recoils. Onoffs are def softer.

Some will be turned off by the head size (but they have very little offset) but if you can get past the size than its all gravy.

I'll be gaming the ONOFF's this season.

Edited February 16, 2013 by Baddmnkey

[boycer11]

Nice review. Im sick of the weather also. I debating selling almost all my clubs until April and starting over.

[Ian-500]

Thanks for the extra side by side pictures Matt. Nice one dude.

[freehb04]

that was better reading than hamlet...

[Spoon]

that was better reading than hamlet...

Haha.

[marley]

Great write up - sounds like you'll have a tough decision this year on what to play - if someone had a gun to your head what would you play at this point

[MoreBeerBetterGolf]

Great write up - sounds like you'll have a tough decision this year on what to play - if someone had a gun to your head what would you play at this point

I would have to take the Personals at this point. I am just hitting the center better with them. I need to go to a heavier and/or stiffer shaft in the OnOffs...I really have to watch my tempo with the 110 S Recoil or I can't control them. Especially if I switch back and forth between the Personals and the OnOffs it always takes me a few swings to hit the OnOffs well whereas the Personal I can pick up cold and just mash it. It really is a testament to the stability of the Aerotech shaft in that weight and flex.

I hit the Mizuno shaft optimizer tonight to try and get a baseline for why the Aerotechs are working so much better for me in regards to contact and it suggest X100s or C Taper X softstepped. Meaning I probably need a 125 X Recoil soft stepped. I am consulting Bobby on it to see what he wants to do.

If I can get the right Recoil in the OnOffs to hit them as pure as I do the Personals, it will be tough to overcome the feel/forgiveness of that combo. You really can't go wrong either way, they're the best of the best imo.