indharbor Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) Hi, I am looking to hear your opnions whether it's from seller or buyer's perspective. I have sold an item on Bay (PRGR Egg Seven driver head) and got into a dispute with the buyer. Here is the description of the item: Listing is for 2012 Japan only PRGR Egg Seven Driver head only. The concept of the egg Seven driver is built around a single loft option of 7 degrees, and the promise of both great carry and run. The egg Seven is made for those who can swing fast enough to generate a good and healthy launch with a lower lofted driver. New one retails for $949 with stock shaft and you can get this one at a fraction of the cost. Condition is immaculate and I would rate it 9 out of 10. These are not available in US and are offered in Japan market only. For more details, please check http://www.tourspecg...roducts_id=3610 If you have a shaft for this bad boy, it's a monster. Tip is .335. It comes with original headcover. Now, the buyer is returning the item claiming that the item is not as described since the face angle is closed. I have told the buyer that I did not state anything about the face angle in my listing and his opinion on face angle is his subjective opinion and the driver sits close to square. He claims I have asserted him that the driver face angle is square but I would assume he is taking that from the information from the Tourspecgolf website. I am looking to escalate the claim to Bay and hopefully win the case outright. What is your opinion on this whether it's from buyer's or seller's stand point? Would you just take the return or would you fight the case? I believe I have strong ground not to take the return and buyer should keep it and take responsible for it. I am not looking for someone to take my side. I just want to hear your opinions on this subject. Thanks! indharbor Edited March 4, 2013 by indharbor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIduffer Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Did you order the head with a closed face or is it a stock head within mfg. tolerances? In my opinion if you knew that the head was not within mfg tolerances for a stock head then the issue is yours.. Otherwise good luck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indharbor Posted March 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) Did you order the head with a closed face or is it a stock head within mfg. tolerances? In my opinion if you knew that the head was not within mfg tolerances for a stock head then the issue is yours.. Otherwise good luck... I bought this second hand and I am assuming it's the stock head within mfg. tolerances. I have played the driver shafted and I do not find it closed face. Once again, it can look square to me but closed to others. My point is from the descriptions from the listing, would you think I am asserting you to believe that the face angle is square considering the fact I am not stating anything about it in the listing? Do you think "item not as described" is a fair dispute? Thanks! Edited March 4, 2013 by indharbor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIduffer Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 I bought this second hand and I am assuming it's the stock head within mfg. tolerances. I have played the driver shafted and I do not find it closed face. Once again, it can look square to me but closed to others. My point is from the descriptions from the listing, would you think I am asserting you to believe that the face angle is square considering the fact I am not stating anything about it in the listing? Do you think "item not as described" is a fair dispute? Thanks! My point is that if you measure the face angle and it is more closed than mfg. tolerances, irrelevant of your inclusion or exclusion of the info it is your issue. The reason I say that is if I had done research on the head before bidding I know what spec is, any deviations beyond mfg. tolerances needs to be accounted for by you or the buyer has an argument that the ad is misleading. Also dealing with it on a specs basis gets rid of subjective arguments and possible buyer's remorse from the dispute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreBeerBetterGolf Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) Bay and PayPal love to screw the seller. This could drag on for 45 days and still result in you accepting return and them getting a refund. Even though you didn't do anything wrong. In my spare time I used to buy up tons of iPhones on Craigslist that people in money trouble were selling dirt cheap. Then I'd jailbreak them and sell them on tourspecgolf at a healthy profit. I pretty much quit doing it because people have figured out how to scam the seller because tourspecgolf and PayPal definitely favor the buyer in most cases. Edited March 4, 2013 by MoreBeerBetterGolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreBeerBetterGolf Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) Double post Edited March 4, 2013 by MoreBeerBetterGolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-500 Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 From what you've posted, I think it's the buyers problem and not yours. You haven't highlighted the face angle. In the link Tario describes the face angle as "pretty much square", but that's only Tarios opinion, and if you scroll down further on the PRGR listing, it shows that the face angle is +1, which means its closed right? So some people will see it closed but some people will see it as pretty much square. Well that's what I think anyway. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indharbor Posted March 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 From what you've posted, I think it's the buyers problem and not yours. You haven't highlighted the face angle. In the link Tario describes the face angle as "pretty much square", but that's only Tarios opinion, and if you scroll down further on the PRGR listing, it shows that the face angle is +1, which means its closed right? So some people will see it closed but some people will see it as pretty much square. Well that's what I think anyway. Good luck. Thank you. That is my point exactly. On PRGR product page, Is the section with +1 value indicating the face angle? I can't read Japanese so I didn't know if that's the value for face angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-500 Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 That's what I assume Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoon Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 My experience with tourspecgolf.. Guy buying a 7* driver is the type Of buyer, golfer id assume to be a better Player, face angle preference is square to open. So if he sees it as closed then he can file a claim. Doesnt matter if he got remorsefull, he an say whatever he Wants and offer to refund.. Game over.. Sorry buddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supo Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 ah yes. this one........ this sux. but........... IF u know its CLOSED,, then u must disclose it. if it OPEN it doesnt matter. thats not fair i know , but its the way it is. it protects the better palyer. as a rule. id alwyas presume the face is square to open. 100% of the time if its closed i and i wasnt told d be pssssed it wasnt mentioned.. and id ask for refund. it doesntm atter where u got it form ur the last port of call u are repsonsible for it thats my take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky3 Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) I don't think it's fair to involve TSG, in the first place. You should describe it as best you can yourself and then it's 'buyer beware'. ie. he should have asked you specifically wether it was open or closed. I doubt that E-bay or PAYPAL will support you.... they never do. but good luck anyway Edited March 5, 2013 by corky3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idrive Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Bay and PayPal love to screw the seller. This could drag on for 45 days and still result in you accepting return and them getting a refund. Even though you didn't do anything wrong. In my spare time I used to buy up tons of iPhones on Craigslist that people in money trouble were selling dirt cheap. Then I'd jailbreak them and sell them on tourspecgolf at a healthy profit. I pretty much quit doing it because people have figured out how to scam the seller because tourspecgolf and PayPal definitely favor the buyer in most cases. Boy am I confused. Tousrpecgolf as in this site?? back to the OP, has he had it to a club builder and had it measured and confirmed the head is closed or is this just his opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swisstrader Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 It's a no win situation...I had a guy buy a crestron processor for my sound system from me on tourspecgolf. Pics of ad showed no connector cables nor did I ever mention anything about cables. The guy then demands a refund based on no cables. Too much work for me to argue. I would suggest simply relisting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indharbor Posted March 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Boy am I confused. Tousrpecgolf as in this site?? back to the OP, has he had it to a club builder and had it measured and confirmed the head is closed or is this just his opinion? It's just his opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indharbor Posted March 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 It's a no win situation...I had a guy buy a crestron processor for my sound system from me on tourspecgolf. Pics of ad showed no connector cables nor did I ever mention anything about cables. The guy then demands a refund based on no cables. Too much work for me to argue. I would suggest simply relisting. I know where this is going but I will try my best to fight back. I have had experience with Bay service for last three years while running Bay store for a retail store. If you fight hard, you can get something out of it. I won't let the fool and Bay get away with this easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idrive Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 It's just his opinion. Without proof it's closed I'd go ahead and fight it. Sadly, PP will probably side with him but.... Be sure and include in your dispute he has no evidence, just his opinion along with everything else you've mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxio Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 He should have asked you. I know it sucks for a buyer but tourspecgolf is caveat emptor. Nothing in the description mentioning it means, buyer beware. I bought a Cleveland Classic last year head only on tourspecgolf. Every Cleveland release and 90% of the reviews say the 290 had a square to slightly open face. It gets here and it was looking to be at least 1 degree closed. Everyone that looked at it said so. Since I didn't ask the seller, I took the "loss". As for the better player=no closed face argument. Not all the time. I have 3 guys (handicaps 2,4,5) in my regular groups that set their adjustable drivers to slightly closed because they want to hit a draw each and every time. No two way misses for them. I on the other hand a handicap 10 play my driver slightly open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indharbor Posted March 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) I just got a message from E-Bay that they have decided in my favor. I have the money back in my Paypal account. I guess it was very clear and cut situation even for E-bay guys in my case. The buyer was filing a claim utilizing Buyer protection with opening a dispute item not as described but didn't work for him this time. Instead of responding to the buyer, I have contacted E-bay customer support and talked to number of people about the situation and explained in detail why his claim is false and how he is taking advantage of the buyer protection. Then, I had esclated the claim to E-bay with full written report to let them make the decision instead of trying to work out with the buyer. Immediately after I responded to his email about the return, he opened the dispute so I knew he was not in the mood for communication. You can't expect the seller to be accounted for something he didn't say in the first place. It's simple as that. It's surprising that they have made a decision this quick but I am glad I have won the case. Finally, justice is in place. Thanks all for your opinions. Edited March 5, 2013 by indharbor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoon Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 I just got a message from E-Bay that they have decided in my favor. I have the money back in my Paypal account. I guess it was very clear and cut situation even for E-bay guys in my case. The buyer was filing a claim utilizing Buyer protection with opening a dispute item not as described but didn't work for him this time. Instead of responding to the buyer, I have contacted E-bay customer support and talked to number of people about the situation and explained in detail why his claim is false and how he is taking advantage of the buyer protection. Then, I had esclated the claim to E-bay with full written report to let them make the decision instead of trying to work out with the buyer. Immediately after I responded to his email about the return, he opened the dispute so I knew he was not in the mood for communication. You can't expect the seller to be accounted for something he didn't say in the first place. It's simple as that. It's surprising that they have made a decision this quick but I am glad I have won the case. Finally, justice is in place. Thanks all for your opinions. congrats buddy! seriously i thought the buyer would win the case. nice one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIduffer Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Congrats on the positive outcome... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indharbor Posted March 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 congrats buddy! seriously i thought the buyer would win the case. nice one Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indharbor Posted March 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Congrats on the positive outcome... Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreBeerBetterGolf Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 E-Bay gets autocorrected to tourspecgolf for those of your confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idrive Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 E-Bay gets autocorrected to tourspecgolf for those of your confused. Learn something every day... thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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