+TourSpecGolfer Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 First I'd like to say Epon makes a great product. TSG no longer working with Epon is more about a disagreement between Niimi-san and myself. Two business men not being able to agree on a variety of different topics especially the value of Internet Marketing & Sales. The victim is not TSG nor Niimi-san, It's Epon and the brand deserves better than this. In the end it has become very personal for both sides, that was not our intention and I apologize to Epon, our members, and even to Niimi-san. We supported and built up Epon for about 7 years. In 2010, our account was heavily restricted because we questioned the role of an International Agent in between Epon & TSG. To Niimi-san this was considered very disrespectful. We accepted the fact that the strong friendship between Niimi-san & Kobayashi-san who at the time was still president of Endo and Epon, made trying to work directly with Epon again highly improbable. In 2012 I apologized to Niimi-san and we began to sell & distribute Epon again as the North American west coast distributor and sole online distributor which we were very thankful for. Then when Mr. Kobayashi left Endo/Epon to work at S-Yard we felt it was now our opportunity to work directly with the creator of some of the most amazing golf clubs ever produced. Niimi-san was made the new S-Yard Asia distributor except for Korea & China. We went to S-Yard a few weeks ago and sat down to have a meeting with Mr. Kobayashi. Our direct contact with S-Yard did not go over well with Niimi-san and we were told by Niimi-san we could no longer communicate with S-Yard directly and had to deal through Sosan for any information or products. This was troubling and frustrating for us because ALL other American & Global S-Yard accounts were allowed to deal directly with S-Yard outside of asia. TSG was the only company that was being forced to go through Sosan/Niimi-san. From our perspective that was unfair and we didn't feel secure going through Sosan/Niimi-san given the restrictions placed on us in the past over personal issues. I did not want to be put into the same situation with an entity between TSG and another OEM so I made it clear to both Niimi-san & S-Yard my intentions to deal directly with S-Yard, which further upset Niimi-san on a personal level so he cut our Epon account entirely about 1 week ago. And that is how it all ended. Our Epon account was cut by Niimi-san for communicating our intent to deal directly with S-Yard. The goal was to be able to deal directly with S-Yard and still maintain Epon through Sosan, and to move forward and still help both brands grow globally as TSG has always done for Epon. I knew it would be a risk and knew there could possibly be consequences. I apologize to the members for creating a situation where Epon is not as accessible as it was before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaleUK Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 What about 2nd hand sales? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swisstrader Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) I personally have a lot of respect for that...well worded, respectful and honest. THANK YOU Now let's go back to having fun on this forum and focusing on golf gear and golf in general (he says as NY weather warms to 50* this weekend)! Edited March 9, 2013 by swisstrader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted March 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 What about 2nd hand sales? Yes 2nd hand sales are fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaygolf Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Cool C. Less fire more grace! Thanks for clearing things up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreBeerBetterGolf Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Well done Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-500 Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Yeah fair play Chris. Well written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmclarenf1 Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 One door closes, another opens. Life goes on. Just watch the s yard door closely... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauvanilla Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 no disagreement with CRAZY ... pelase please please hahahahaha I m a big supporter of TSG, so that is what I follow and believe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomcat Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Thanks C for clarifying the situation. Much better this way ;) Cheers mate and long live TSG !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky3 Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Good post, strange how these relationships are allowed to color good business in these economic times, but hey ho...c'est la vie and any other cliche you care to quote...... I'm sure we'll all live.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanla01 Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Chris, Great write up and definitely another step to moving forward! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freehb04 Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 that's a bummer. hope you guys can work it out. tsg does a great job with this forum and I have nothing but positive things to say about my dealings with Tario and the crew! epon is gr8 product and as a customer of TSG who loves epon it's a sad day for me. I've thrown back some brown water and am now planning s-yard, crazy and jBEAM bags....my job is never done.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegaman Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Nicely written Chris! I guess this is an example of how the Japanese focus on personal relationships, while bringing certain advantages, also has it's distinct disadvantages..Where the personal relationship gets in the way of common business sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potuna Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Best moving froward with all your business endeavors TSG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freehb04 Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Nicely written Chris! I guess this is an example of how the Japanese focus on personal relationships, while bringing certain advantages, also has it's distinct disadvantages..Where the personal relationship gets in the way of common business sense. it's a beautiful culture and I don't portend to know anything of this situation other than what was posted by Chris but I have done business in Japan and while I love everything about the culture: food, girls, celebrations, feeling like king kong on the trains, social custom, the patterns of life, etc, I found the business environment very diff than what I'm used to in America. I loved the social component of my Japanese business relationships but found negotiating very challenging and quite honestly I just wasn't very successful. part of it was due to my own ignorance and lack of patience but I also perceived a different set of rules while spending time there. not better or worse mind you, just very different...there is a longer term view of things sometimes I think...such a groovy place, would be delighted to live there if I could afford it...in any case In hindsight, what I thought at the time to be poor business sense on behalf of my Japanese associates I believe now to be a result of different values and priorities.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bully4 Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) Thankyou for the explanation....... Edited March 10, 2013 by bully4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomcat Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) Thankyou for the explanation....... TSG does not have any stock if I well understood the process. They order to the factory for you. Each of my order was sent from the brand offices except the items TSG gets for demo which are sold directly by Chris. Edited March 10, 2013 by tomcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swisstrader Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 it's a beautiful culture and I don't portend to know anything of this situation other than what was posted by Chris but I have done business in Japan and while I love everything about the culture: food, girls, celebrations, feeling like king kong on the trains, social custom, the patterns of life, etc, I found the business environment very diff than what I'm used to in America. I loved the social component of my Japanese business relationships but found negotiating very challenging and quite honestly I just wasn't very successful. part of it was due to my own ignorance and lack of patience but I also perceived a different set of rules while spending time there. not better or worse mind you, just very different...there is a longer term view of things sometimes I think...such a groovy place, would be delighted to live there if I could afford it...in any case In hindsight, what I thought at the time to be poor business sense on behalf of my Japanese associates I believe now to be a result of different values and priorities.... Well stated....I believe the real reason you were not successful there was your use of the word "groovy"! I kid, I kid:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swing981 Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 While Epon had very nice gear...there retail prices they charged were nothing short of overpriced and greed if you will. Charging 670 dollars usa for the 2nd run of I33 was simply appaling. Plenty of other manufacters offer very nice putters at half that cost... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shambles Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 First I'd like to say Epon makes a great product. TSG no longer working with Epon is more about a disagreement between Niimi-san and myself. Two business men not being able to agree on a variety of different topics especially the value of Internet Marketing & Sales. The victim is not TSG nor Niimi-san, It's Epon and the brand deserves better than this. In the end it has become very personal for both sides, that was not our intention and I apologize to Epon, our members, and even to Niimi-san. We supported and built up Epon for about 7 years. In 2010, our account was heavily restricted because we questioned the role of an International Agent in between Epon & TSG. To Niimi-san this was considered very disrespectful. We accepted the fact that the strong friendship between Niimi-san & Kobayashi-san who at the time was still president of Endo and Epon, made trying to work directly with Epon again highly improbable. In 2012 I apologized to Niimi-san and we began to sell & distribute Epon again as the North American west coast distributor and sole online distributor which we were very thankful for. Then when Mr. Kobayashi left Endo/Epon to work at S-Yard we felt it was now our opportunity to work directly with the creator of some of the most amazing golf clubs ever produced. Niimi-san was made the new S-Yard Asia distributor except for Korea & China. We went to S-Yard a few weeks ago and sat down to have a meeting with Mr. Kobayashi. Our direct contact with S-Yard did not go over well with Niimi-san and we were told by Niimi-san we could no longer communicate with S-Yard directly and had to deal through Sosan for any information or products. This was troubling and frustrating for us because ALL other American & Global S-Yard accounts were allowed to deal directly with S-Yard outside of asia. TSG was the only company that was being forced to go through Sosan/Niimi-san outside of Asia. From our perspective that was unfair and we didn't feel secure going through Sosan/Niimi-san given the restrictions placed on us in the past over personal issues. I did not want to be put into the same situation with an entity between TSG and another OEM so I made it clear to both Niimi-san & S-Yard my intentions to deal directly with S-Yard, which further upset Niimi-san on a personal level so he cut our Epon account entirely about 1 week ago. And that is how it all ended. Our Epon account was cut by Niimi-san for communicating our intent to deal directly with S-Yard. The goal was to be able to deal directly with S-Yard and still maintain Epon through Sosan, and to move forward and still help both brands grow globally as TSG has always done for Epon. I knew it would be a risk and knew there could possibly be consequences. I apologize to the members for creating a situation where Epon is not as accessible as it was before. Seems to me you were struck by the Zaibatsu mentality that is reasonably prevalent in Asia and might even be in other parts of the world. Not really a big deal. We all need to play the cards we are dealt and do wrong foot on occasion. As a matter of fact, this incident might be indicative that you are more valuable as a trading partner than is obvious. Then again, I may be over reading. :) Life happens and other opportunities for you to apply your energy will come from time to time. Shambles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankThong Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 Frankly, I'm quite shocked but not surprised if that makes any sense. Not surprised because Japan, or Asia for that matter, can be weird that way, especially in small conservative businesses where relationship weighs in heavily in deals-making. However, Endo is not a small company and it's sad that personal differences are allowed to disrupt a successful partnership. I think Epon and TSG make a very well matched couple -- TSG is exactly the place that I'd expect to find boutique artisan JDM brands and none epitomizes that better than Epon in my opinion. I would not have known about Epon if not for TSG and I am certain there are many like me from my part of the woods. Even as all good things must come to an end, I would hate to think of the life hereon without Epon, and thereon without TSG. I feel like I've just been told mom and dad are getting a divorce! So you will excuse me while I kick the dog... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankThong Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 Melodrama aside. Yeah, sorry to hear about the split. Such a shame. Hope you can both find a way to reconcile in the near future; no one wins in this picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukok Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 IMO, Epon will always be the premier JDM brand. Their models may be dated but no other brand would have the audacity to re-release 5 year old models as new releases and elicit positive reviews. I for one cannot wait for their new releases (rumour has it very soon) and will not hesitate to source them from my supplier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamhnxx Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 can somebody recommand an Epon online store please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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