nobmontana Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Well, I happen to have a trip scheduled for Japan next month. Should I go for it? darn! there goes my mid year bonus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needmoregolf Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Well, I happen to have a trip scheduled for Japan next month. Should I go for it? darn! there goes my mid year bonus! Foregone conclusion bud...the real question is, where will you and stew be hanging out after your fitting ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiromikey Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Foregone conclusion bud...the real question is, where will you and stew be hanging out after your fitting ;) I agree, it's a done deal. Keep in mind that while Stew will wear you out on the course, it's The Baron that you need to worry about after hours. "Let's stop in here for one drink" turned into two and a half bottles of Jaegermeister!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobmontana Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Need to start researching a 7D worthy head!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needmoregolf Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 your zy-11!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobmontana Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Yes.. but this is another bogus reason I can tell my wifey how I am investing in this great shaft and now I need a super duper head to go with it! I am just sick sick sick.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmieboi Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) Why would one want to play low loft and neglect the actual ball launch angle. Optimum ball launch angle is 14 degree no more no less. I just got fitted by highly trained fitter today (at last) and found out that driver loft I should play is 12degee (I normally play 8.5 my whole life). To achieve 14 degree launch, I needed a 12 degree head (I have a depending to level blow). Then choose shaft that will results in 2500-3000 RPM. Sergio Garcia, Rick Fowler and Martin Kaymer play 11.5 - 12 degree driver. They all hit 300+ drives. With swing speed over 110mph, swing weight should be at least D3. I think your ZY-11 is built wrong. Just for reference. My SS is 120mph. Edited May 15, 2015 by jimmieboi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobmontana Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 > Sergio Garcia, Rick Fowler and Martin Kaymer play 11.5 - 12 degree driver Very interesting!! but I am assuming that is because they have a steeper than normal angle of attack.. No? One of the Pros at my home course who is also a fitter at Cool Clubs during the off season uses a 10.5 loft G25 driver and his launch angle is still lower than mine. His SS is upwards of 120 or 125 as well. He told me that he needs the added loft because his angle of attack is so steep. I interpreted that as " hitting down or at level " at impact ... I have an upwards swing so the 9* loft on the ZY11 together with a mid launch shaft is giving me the launch angle I need. I will be scheduling a trackman session soon with my drivers again to look at some numbers . Will need find out if my launch angle is close to 14 deg!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmieboi Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 Exactly. It doesn't matter what loft you use.....what matter most is the ball launch angle (plus ball speed and spin). I've been using 8.5 degree all my life and after fitted for a 12 degree (head has to be low and forward CG for a high launch low spin) shafted with KuroKage (low spin shaft) I've gain 20+ yards. If your ball launch is too low then maybe a 9.5 is too low for you. Higher launching shaft will help but that will also increase spin and will not gain you distance either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobmontana Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 +20 yards !!? Kurokage shaft... that is so unlike you! :) Have you moved away from JDM drivers? So what 12 deg head are you now using and what did you do with all the 8.5 deg JDM drivers you had? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmieboi Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) Sadly to say the 12 degree driver is SLDR (I'll change it to JBeam Glorious in 12 degree soon. The Glorious is low and forward CG). All of my low lofted club are on shelf for display now. The Kurokage is an awesome shaft. Very low spinning and easy to hit. I had it in 60g flex X. Lighter shaft will allow me to go D3 swing weight with a shorter built at 45inch. It will be a bomb if I shafted it into Glorious, but need to pump some cash first after purchasing 2 drivers in less than a week. P.S. Epon just ditch out of Thailand's market making Thailand without a distributor. So Epon product will be an ultra rare item from now on, buying Epon is a must for me even if it doesn't fit my swing as I am an Epon fanboy. What's wrong with Epon these days anyway. Edited May 15, 2015 by jimmieboi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobmontana Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 Interesting that Epon pulled out of Thailand market. Don't they have their main manufacturing facility there? My take is that Epon no longer has a leader with a vision. I too am an Epon fan ... yet their recent products do not attract me at all. I would be interested to know how your Glorious 12 deg head works with your Kurokage. i.e. would you be able to emulate the SLDR flight with a Glorious head? A Glorious head with heavier weight would probably behave very differently too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjr. D Posted May 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 I've heard the Aldila Rogue 125 MSI (which I have but haven't played enough yet to get a conclusive opinion on) and the KuroKage XT are phenomenal shafts! SLDR 430 is extremely low launch and spin which might be why you can go with a 12* head in it. If I tried playing a 12* head in something other than the SLDR I'd spin it so much it would I'd end up with negative yardage. 8.5 has always worked but I'm now curious to try 9.5 and even 10.5 with a super low spin/launch shaft and see what happens in terms of accuracy and distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobmontana Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 Not that I have the swing speed you guys have ... but I used to play 8.5 loft on all my drivers as well. I have an upward swing and hit everything very high to begin with. The problem with lower loft heads are that they are less forgiving. Hank Haney always says on his radio "more loft is more forgiving." I have settled for now with 9 to 9.5 deg lofts but honestly I too want to try a higher lofted head with a much lower launch shaft to see what I gain out of it. At the end, I think it's all dependent on how you swing and there is no single correct combo for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmieboi Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) How heavy is the Rouge!? If it's too heavy then how will you get the swing weight in ZY-11 up to D3 or more!? A C8 or D0 can't be consistent with that high swing speed and also you'll lose power upon impact. Adding filler to the neck will ultimately hook the ball. Adding too much lead tape will alter its CG. The Rouge and KuroKage are the number 1 and 2 dominating shaft on tour right now respectively. Rory uses KuroKage and Adam Scott uses Rouge. The head I use is a SLDR S which is a high launch low spin head (JBeam Glorious said to have similar attribute). Low lofted club will result in side spin if miss hit, thus not forgiving. Too high loft will result in too much spin, thus you'll needed a good shaft to bring the spin down (but you'll need high loft for the optimum launch). IMO, get the highest loft possible (to match the 14degree launch angle) then choose shaft to get the spin down. Driver head for launch angle and shaft for spin, then you'll end up having a forgiving head (from high loft) and a distance gain from lower spinning shaft. 14 degree launch looks extremely high when you see the ball flies, but that's the optimum angle. Go try on trackman and you know what I mean. Some have ascending blow then you'll need lower lofted club, some have a level or descending then you'll need a higher lofted club. Low loft doesn't mean far. Bubba uses a 7 degree but his blow is extremely high. He achieves a launch angle of 14 + with 2000 rpm and a ball speed of 180, thus a 310 yards carry. Fowler is not a huge guy but he average 300 yards with his 11.5 Cobra driver. His swing is dead flat. Only launch monitor will tell you what you need. Edited May 16, 2015 by jimmieboi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjr. D Posted May 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Very good post right there! So 14* is the magic number hey... Hmm, might have to buy a adjustable driver and do some experimenting.... Thanks for the tips! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobmontana Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 The last tire kicking Ping demo day I went to had a launch monitor and I was hitting the Ping G30 LS head set to 9.6 deg with their Tour 80 Stiff shaft around 15 deg where at that location (Seattle ) they said was ideal launch angle . I told them I was from Montana and they suggested that I may get more roll with slightly lower launch at around 13 deg because the typical course conditions are so different. 13 deg was achieved simply by setting the loft to 9 deg. Seattle - lots of rain , softer fairway, need maximum carry. Montana - relatively dry , hard fairway and lots of roll. But I find it interesting the numbers still center around 14deg with slight variation based on course condition. so it looks like 14 deg is the magic number! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobmontana Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 How heavy is the Rouge!? If it's too heavy then how will you get the swing weight in ZY-11 up to D3 or more!? A C8 or D0 can't be consistent with that high swing speed and also you'll lose power upon impact. Adding filler to the neck will ultimately hook the ball. Adding too much lead tape will alter its CG. The Rouge and KuroKage are the number 1 and 2 dominating shaft on tour right now respectively. Rory uses KuroKage and Adam Scott uses Rouge. The head I use is a SLDR S which is a high launch low spin head (JBeam Glorious said to have similar attribute). With the ZY 11 head Mjr D can try getting heavier weight screws and orient it so that the cg moves to the back which would make the head and provide higher launch. The beauty of JBeam heads! Might not be the same as SLDR 12 deg with forward weighting but I think its too soon to give up on the ZY head. it's a really good head. While I have not measured distance on my ZY 11 , yesterday's range session convinced me the ZY 11 is a keeper. I was comparing it between Modart MA01D and PTune PG414. With the ZY 11 , the ball was clearly moving forward with a boring trajectory . By comparison, Ptune was a close second and then Modart . it will be a toss up between the ptune or zy on which head gets to be the choice for the 7D shaft, I think. And 2nd place head will get the AAA shaft. I need to jump on the launch monitor before my trip to Tokyo to help me decide. I will definitely keep close eye on the launch angle this time. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmieboi Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) Yes 14 degree with ball spin 2000 rpm + or -. I have hit the hi core Honma driver with A Flex shaft. I got swing speed 125mph, ball speed 170mph with 16 degree launch. Just these numbers my ball should be in 300+ territory, it landed 260 with no roll. Spin was at 5000++. (Let's not take direction into account). 3 numbers matter most, Ballspeed, launch angle and Spin. Expensive launch monitor (flight scope, GC2 or Trackman) doesn't care what club you use, it only care about how ball behaves. Edited May 16, 2015 by jimmieboi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobmontana Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Does the optimum spin rate also depend on how fast the ball speed is? I have had occasions where the ball essentially "drops" out of the sky I was assuming the spin rate was not enough in those cases. My ball speed off the face is probably around 150 to 155mph or so ... Would that require slightly higher spin rate to achieve optimum distance? or does it still need to be 2000 rpm? In my previous launch monitor experience, I usually hovered around 2500rpm to about 2800rpm which I was told was "good" but that was 3 years ago so perhaps the science behind optimum launch conditions changed in the last few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fore Left! Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 2000 rpm with 14* launch is going to give relatively near optimal numbers at almost any ball speed. This is a launch that can work well in soft areas and also firm dry areas. Part of the whole high launch - low spin hysteria misses the fact that golf isn't played on a simulator in a building. In places where wind is a big factor, being able to keep a ball low but with *some* spin on it is crucial to distance and control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobmontana Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Just came back from demo day at a local course. Nike, Mizuno , Cleveland , Cobra, TM , Ping, Titleist were there. Based on our discussions here, I tried all the new drivers with 11.5 to 12 deg loft setting on the head and paired them with lowest launching and lowest spinning shaft based on availability from each vendor. All weight adjustments were done to put weight as much forward as possible to reduce spin. Titleist 915D2 - Rogue 110 Silver - This could work. Trajectory is great and ball goes forward! Did not like the feel or sound. Srixon Z745 - Kurokage HBP - Best feeling head of the day. Would want to try a Miyazaki Kusala Black shaft with it. Nike Vapor Flex - Diamana D+ - A bit mushy feel but persimmon like sound. Trajectory was great. I had best results today with this club. Smaller size but seemed as forgiving as a 460cc head. First Nike driver that I actually liked since their Ignite 410 driver. Mizuno JPX 850 - Speeder Tourspec 6.3 - Overall Good driver. Nothing that stands out unfortunately. Cobra Fly Z+ - Aldila Tour Green Was not impressed. Ball went too high. Changing the weight forward made the sound and feel very hard. I did not try TM or Ping .... I have tried G30 series before and TM rep was too busy and could not get a club set up for me. So i learned today this high loft head / low spin shaft combo could work for me. Only thing I did not like going high loft was that the face always looked slightly closed to me. Maybe it actually wasn't but it certainly looked that way. For now, I think will stick to the 9 to 9.5 deg heads with mid launch shaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supo Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 wow, this is interesting. i do all my testing on the course . i never use any monitors to test anyhting, what ever hits the fairways the longest and most , i use. there is a LM pretty close to my place, i shud build one to see how it goes vs my build and try /die method. not built a high launching driver in eons, ive bene going the other way! hihger lofted tend to get lost way more than low burners for me. yetserday hit the egg7 again, 9* closed face i hit 11-14 long enough to get me on the par5s in two. ok. ill build one, so how does one go about gettign the info to build a high driver . id use the diamana X 70 shaft for low spin, i guess id need a realy high launch head. prob is here i dont think there is any..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmieboi Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 JBeam Glorious is the highest (so far tested) JDM head out there. The low and forward CG (t.388 or Zero) reduse spin and launch drastically, thus those are available in 10.5 and advertise to go very low (10.5 only for the Zero or you can't get it up with anything lower). Wish it came out in 11 or 12 loft. Whereas Ryoma has its CG low and back, thus lots of forgiveness (low and back CG results in lesser side spin on off center hit and easy launch but in turn produce lots is back spin). The more back spin the more it struggles into the wind. That's why Ryoma users agree that it's a bad driver when play against the wind. The best way IMO, is to go get fitted and if one doesn't like the feel of the USDM, get the specs your fitted and purchase the matched ones on JDM market. I've done enough of hit and miss. Launch monitors' data is as accurate as it can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjr. D Posted May 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Who tested the Jbeam Glorious and highest as in launch angle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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