r7 .... Emporer's new clothes?

[haribo]

Yesterday evening I was bored and went on an extended web surf. I read somewhere, I believe it was GO but can't really remember ... surfed too many sites ... it became one big blur, ... so I read somewhere someone's question "What driver did Goosen play at the US Open?"

As we all know he used a R7. Which of course is simply more oil for the hype-fire TM is burning. That's how legends are made. Short lived one's in TM's case but nevertheless legends.

Anyway, in that thread some friendly guy also posted what set up Retief was using on his R7. To my surprise he stated it was the most neutral set up possible.

Hm. Pause. Bigger Hm. Yes, TM made all the Pro's switch to their new wonder wand (baby's gotto sell of course) but at least in Goosen's case it wouldn't have mattered squad if he would have used the R7 or his old 510TP, or whatever toaster-on-a-stick as long as it came with a neutral setting.

Well, one should expect a Pro would not need any help to split a fairway with his driver. But of course everybody has been and will be tweaking to some degree ... more or less successfully. And they all did this long before the R7 came out. (Except Mr. Goosen ... he's a neutral setting kinda guy, remember.)

Anyway, I apologize for this long winded post but here's my point/question. The R7 is supposed to be only of benefit to the better player. But most better player's frankly don't need much help (that's why they are better player's, right?). So what is this R7 really good for???? Other than being a new big money making scheme that's replacing the older High-COR-super-duper-long-drives money making scheme.

Could it be that this new, high priced technology is just a cover up for an old spiel ... and we are all happily pulling our wallets?

haribo

[DemolitionMan]

You kind of answered your own question. Someone like Goosen is not necessarily going to benefit. If you are a great driver of the ball, and play a neutral setup, then about the only thing the R7 can possibly offer is a lower ball flight and a little less spin. It is possible from a cosmetic point of view you could like the setup better, it does have a more compact look than the 510 DF.

PGA Tour pros are a lousy reference for what driver to use if you are looking for specific reasons. There are too many intangibles for these people and on top of all that, they are paid to play the sponsor's clubs. Yes I know there are plenty of non TM staffers paid by another OEM that has a TM driver in the bag. They like the setup, they like the results, that's about all they can say when it comes down to it. Does that mean it will work for you - the non pro golfer? No. Does that mean you should not play another driver? Obviously no.

TM makes a really good driver, it is undeniable. But it does not fit everyone's eye, so others will go with Titleist, Callaway, whatever.... Choice of driver and getting one properly set up has little to do with TM's sales/marketing strategy. Of course the 300 series is a suitable driver for most golfers, as is the 500 series. TM is not saying you have to go to the R7 just because, and they are saying it is not for most golfers. But if you want to experiment with ball flights and go down that road, there's your driver.

It is pointless to argue/discuss the strategy of TM to come out with new drivers so often and what it does to the market place. And it is pretty pointless to discuss the lack of benefits of the next great driver. It will not stop the OEMs from pursuing the same strategy of marketing so called innovation in order to push sales. They cannot stand still, if they did, they would have to change the entire corporate strategy...and risk being sued by Titleist for copying their slow ways (that was a joke).

It is useful to discuss the R7 in and of itself as a golf club. What are it's features, what kind of performance can be counted on, who is it for, etc.....

[PxExG]

You know Haribo I think you are right. From all my readings of the reviews of the R7, not one has said "It turned my slice into a power fade" I have not personally hit it, but when they come out in Ireland I hope to give it a whirl *hopefully by 2008*

Pepe said it best when talking about the R7 - he said that once he got the weight configuration he liked, he would throw the rest of the weights into the Ocean!

[myswinghateme]

The way Goosen was putting he probably could have used the perfect club off the tee and still won. I definitely didn't like trading in my recently purchased 580xd for the R7, but I love the R7. It does what TM promised it would do, and it has helped me hit more fairways. So, in the end, I'm fine with the purchase knowing that it will pay for itself over time in scotch and skins games.

[haribo]

I'm not questioning if the R7 is a good driver or not. It is surely as good as all the other TM drivers. And if somebody's hitting his or her TP (insert other brand name here) well ... why change????

I truely believe this very question is the reason behind research & development of the R7. You see, first TM reincarnated with the 300 series from the copper coloured Un-Dead. It was an immediate success everywhere. Then High COR became the next big thing and the inverted cone technology of the 500 series was catering to the distance starving golf afficionando. After High COR became deemed illegal, TM's marketing department turned the same club, except slight change in COR, from huge distance to huge forgiveness. etc, etc.

And now a new revolution in technology ... the R7.

BUT this time IMO Taylor Made really nailed it. Big time. I'm serious.

Honestly, they found something everybody wants to jump on. No true equipment junky/ho will be able to resist. Doesn't matter if they already have drivers that go long and straight. Just check out other forums. That thing's HOT.

Trust me the secret is not the new technology TM came up with. In my opinion the secret wasn't found in the R&D department ... but in the Psychology department.

TM biggest realisation is that golfers love toys. We just can't have enough of them. And TM is delievering now in the form of shiny litte weight plugs. 2, 10, later more of course, gram pieces of candy we all can play with.

Bottomline is TM came up with a genial idea. These weight plugs are the buttons to the Emporer's new clothes.

haribo :money:

[DemolitionMan]

I really don't agree. While TM is doing a lot of marketing based on psychology to fuel sales, the bottom line is you need to have big bucks in the R&D department to back it up. The R7 is not an easily engineered product. Not many other OEMs can pull this off.

And the technology is legitimate, not simply an answer for people who love to tinker. If that was the case, the R7 would be a failure because more times than not, once you get the weights dialed it, the tinkering is over.

If I thought the weights did not work, I would still be hitting the 510 DF because like you said, it is not a distance issue. But it is a dispersion issue and the R7 dispersion is much tighter than the 510 DF. It has made a big difference to me. Just as an example, I have yet to lose a ball off the tee with the R7 with some wild right drive. With the 510 DF I could count on one of those every round or two. With the R7 I am getting the ball to turn over half the time, with the 510, rarely, it was always setup down the right side and get the fade to the middle.

Once I setup the weights to where I want them, I have not changed them, and have no desire to change them. Even on a windy day, I am not going to change the weights for lower ball flight, I will just tee it a little lower.

I can see a lot of what you are saying and agree with some of it, but calling it the emporer's new clothes is too much exaggeration.

[shoe295]

I'm not questioning if the R7 is a good driver or not. It is surely as good as all the other TM drivers. And if somebody's hitting his or her TP (insert other brand name here) well ... why change????

haribo  :money:

Because there is something new and improved and that's what people want. I don't think they do the research to make us want to change, I think we change because we are in search of that Holy Grail, whether it be golf clubs, laundry detergent, or automobiles. This item I just bought is the best, quickest, longest, straightest, dirt fightingest, you should see that sucker merge into traffic thing on the market today. Emphasis on today. They do the research so they can feed our need to change. It becomes "which came first the chicken or the egg" in a discussion like this, the product causeing the desire to change or the desire to change creating the need for the product.

Personally I keep changing hoping that I'll get better when all I really get is different, but my head believes I'm better..and sometimes, as in DM's case I really do get better in which case I stick with that until something better comes along... :-D :cool:

[+TourSpecGolfer]

The R7 is indeed a special club, For me its longer than most and just flat out forgiving helping me find fairways big time. Something has happened with my brain and the weights. I have gone from a small fade to a large draw, of course I realize its my swing/brain doing this not the driver.

TM's marketing is unreal they upset club retailers with fluctuating prices yet create clubs the public loves and feels like they need. Hats off to TM for pretty much creating the tour market.

The technology works, the I.C.T is what I think to be its greatest asset. I do find it not so forgiving with heel hits but what can you expect from a deep face driver. the weighting is a little tricky for me because of my random ball flights so I often switch quite often and yes I do it during the round :whistle: I know its bad but I'm very anti conformity, I don't carry a handicap and wont play in any tournaments and often pray for Donald trump to create a rival tour association with bigger money with a more modern look.

I think TM has the driver of the year just as they did they last year and the year before, Its a winner and an actual improvement over what many thought could not get any better. The two R7's I own are not in the bag for TS girl and I but we have hit our longest drives in the fairway with them no doubt. Such a stable head and great product.

[haribo]

I'm not questioning if the R7 is a good driver or not. It is surely as good as all the other TM drivers. And if somebody's hitting his or her TP (insert other brand name here) well ... why change????

haribo  :money:

Because there is something new and improved and that's what people want. I don't think they do the research to make us want to change, I think we change because we are in search of that Holy Grail, whether it be golf clubs, laundry detergent, or automobiles. This item I just bought is the best, quickest, longest, straightest, dirt fightingest, you should see that sucker merge into traffic thing on the market today. Emphasis on today. They do the research so they can feed our need to change. It becomes "which came first the chicken or the egg" in a discussion like this, the product causeing the desire to change or the desire to change creating the need for the product.

Personally I keep changing hoping that I'll get better when all I really get is different, but my head believes I'm better..and sometimes, as in DM's case I really do get better in which case I stick with that until something better comes along... :-D :cool:

1. I don't mind if you quote me. But please don't take bids and pieces out of its context. That gives what I'm saying a different spin. I am not questioning at all why one should change driver or not. It was a mere rhetorical question

While I'm at it, I also don't want to make the R7 look like a gimmick or something to that extend. Not at all. As I said earlier it's a genial idea and they nailed it. For some this club might be an improvement. For other's it won't. Period. Doesn't matter how often one changes their setting or not. This club simply caters to the kid in all of us. It's as unresistable as a drink to an alcoholic.

2. You actually made my point. Thanks.

haribo

[haribo]

Look guy's, I'm in the same boat. I have/had two TM Tour drivers (one's already sold) and I'm way to inconsistent with either one. High right, to high slice is my disaster shot. I'm about to do this :money: myself and invest in yet again another driver.

The regular R7 doesn't do it for me. Want a Fuji shaft and I'm also not so sure that a deep face is realy all that good for me.

So, the R7 TP would at least solve the Fuji problem. But this puppy gonna cost here in Canada, including taxes, well in the $1000 + neighborhood.

Frankly, too rizzy for my liking. But the candy sure looks sweet.

The other driver I'm seriously considering is a Callaway GBB II 415 with a 757 speeder as shaft upgrade. (even playing field when it comes to shafts). Still Cdn $ 700 +tax. No slouch either.

The GBB 415 has a square face (R7TP is open) but is generall draw biased, while the R7TP is adjustable to be draw biased of course.

The biggest minus for the Callaway is it certainly does not have that major cool factor going. And no toys to fool around with either. But without having to tighten some loose screws the Callaway does already what I apparently need it to do. (no need to choose between 800 million possible configurations ...)

So, reading about the neutral state of Goosen's driver made me think. All these fancy toys are swell. But I (like Retief or DM) need just one setting. The right (actually left since I'm a righty :wink: ) one.

Btw, the trajectory point is for me (as for DM) a mute one. I want high anyway the wind blows. I'll adjust with how high I tee it up.

Well, having said all this ... I have to close my eyes in order to let my gut take over and be able to make a decision. Looking at all those fancy screws/candies/toys is too distracting for my mind to remain clear.

haribo

[BostonHack]

The R7 is the real thing, whether you want to accept it or not, compare it, critize the company for the way they do business etc, regardless, you got to hit it to believe it.

Just like DM stated it, the major advantage I see over previous drivers. regardless if you want to change the ball flight, is that the R7 is so tight.

I mean, unreal, it is super consistent and it has a much compact head.

I think having it at a neutral position with the correct shaft, beats any previous TM driver, DF/TP/R500/300 etc. Even the retail is a great offering from TM.

[DemolitionMan]

Just reiterating I hear what you are saying haribo.

Is it the specs of the regular R7 (larger tip, closed face) turning you away from that option or have you already hit it? I would recommend anyone to rent a R7 from Ebay. It is worth the $20-50 to try it out.

Ocatvio Dotel just blew his 1st save in an A's uniform :-)

[oiamsobuff]

I would recommend anyone to rent a R7 from Ebay.  It is worth the $20-50 to try it out.

Ocatvio Dotel just blew his 1st save in an A's uniform  :-)

But he got the win, and looked good in the 8th.

Harden is hurt, and Hudson just got put on the DL. :sad:

I just rented a retail r7 for $330, if I like the looks I'm putting and NV in there and try to buy weights off someone who's happy with their TP setup.