Shambles

To be very clear, the two or more peice iron clubhead is very new to me and I am not attracted to the idea, but only because it seems a weakness. I'm fairly certain the OEM's who do this have engineers who know it's strong enough but my unqualified and uneducated feeling is that it might give. I do theorize that multiple peices can be easier to assemble as a complicated final form than a single casting or forging, but thats about as far as I can see in that matter. So far I see statements that they are also forgiving, but no data for me to try to understand. Would anybody have a link to something more than simple declarations ? Shambles

Forgive is relative. Personally, if a club is at least mid size and fit with the proper lie and shaft for the player involved, plenty of forgive exists. You can have small niggling problems with inadequate offset, wrong swing weight or poor club balance, or wrong total weight, but those things are already very personal. When a club fits a player, it's the finesse points that add or subtract from total utility. If it's possible, I'd like you to clarify how a 2 peice can be all that different from a one peice. That's a theory that's new to me. Shambles

You're not " totally off ". Pings, like any other club, can be totally " rock hard " when you make a mistake large enough. My current baggers not only felt totally hard and very unforgiving but also excessively heavy and unweildy even to the point that I considered snipping a bit of the hosel off to lighten the heads. The truth was I just put the clubs together wrong and complicated matters by swingng wrong too. Lets just say I was a mess in a morass of errors. A fair amount of thinking, re learning and trial and error finally got all my sets with the exception of the newly acquired eye 2's working satisfactorily. Now it's a matter of sorting out the differences in the club designs and how they affect my game so that I can choose my next permanent bagger. Shambles

Hi Noxon, I'm feeling pretty good these days as I just scored a set of almost totally virgin original eye 2's of lawsuit fame in a garage sale, and can compare them to my old eye 2's that I have had and used since during and before lawsuit. I'm thinking of using these newly acquired as soon as I have them bent to suit my swing. I'm currently bagging a set of Fourteen TC 1000's and rotating them with a set of Sword TM 305 irons and also a set of old Callaway X12's and X20tours. I dismantled my old eye 2's because they were hogging the bag too often and I needed to learn the newer clubs to satisfy my curiosity. Frankly, after fitting the clubs for shaft, length, lie and grip, I find very little difference other than brand bragging rights at the clubhouse. There are loft differences and those can affect distance, but that is a matter of what the practice was at the time of manufacture. What is important is that you learn the set you choose and accept the limitations and advantages of that set as a necessary part of your on course strategy. They are all good if they come from a good manufacturer and some even from boutique manufacturers, once you get them properly fit to you. The important difference is you need to like what you see when you look at your bag. Shambles

I don't think Honmas are all about bling. I know one person who is pretty much a single digit who was playing a set last time I looked in his bag, another who was not all that good and a third who was reasonable. All are private reasonably comfortable individuals who bought their sets and play them regularly. I always thought they were expensive because the shafts were in house made, but as I was doing good with my Pings, I was disinclined to spend the money for a set of my own. I've seen Honmas in the hands of the competent and also the incompetent and the only thing their owners had in common was the willingness to spend the money for something they wanted. Not really much different from myself these days. The only real difference being my self imposed ceiling. I've also had recent opportunities for some Honmas but they were, thankfully, not fit for my low level of competence. A less important reason for my disinclination is that I always thought Honmas were not worth the cost without the in house graphite shafts and I prefer to play steel shafts where Irons are concerned. The Honmas I've seen were rather demanding of higher skill levels than I can claim, much higher. The heads of the irons were small, demanding much precision and they did produce some great shots but punished the poor swings gleefully. I doubt any clubs will make you a single digit on their own, but if the set suits your eye, your chances of improvement are much improved. Shambles

ECA, Good luck to you. I learned long ago that you just, me in any case, cannot fool a woman who loves you. The best hope you have is to just be nice and considerate to them ALL the time. That way they might allow you a little room for personal foolishness. I like your direction and am likewise shopping for good shafts to refit favored heads. I've also experienced those fairway moments wherein you make a great shot and know it wasn't right and are left wondering where the wrong was. Shambles

Now I'm in a mess. You described these as the best feeling. That tells me the length and Swing Weight are probably right, possibly even the over all weight, and lie. Yet you also describe toe shots and that can come from a tired old man and also short shafts that require more knee flex than the golfer is comfortable with. The knee flex I consider important. If you need to flex too much, it can become difficult to maintain your height for your swing. You could end up with a tiny bob that causes inconsistency in striking the ball. This can be caused by shafts that are just that little bit too short. Shafts a bit too short can also encourage not only a swing that's a bit too upright, but also an out to in swing which can cause toe shots. It also affects the grip in subtle ways. BTW, too long can cause as many problems as too short. Trouble is, one really has to see the guy do a few to figure out where his problem is. I've never been much good with the eyes so I need a lot of looking before I can make a reasonable guess, and even then, can be very wrong. To make things more interesting, a 2 cap does not have the dramatic problems that higher caps have, though they can be described the same way with the same words. A weak swing pro can miss the problem entirely and think you are showing off. It can be that subtle. In short, knowing that you are a 2 cap, I think I'll retreat from further discussion and strenuously suggest you find yourself a good swing doctor to try to pin down your swing problem. For all you know, it could just be one of your mates who pins it down, but if he knows you, he'll know better. Anything I can offer is for the more gross errors and not for the subtle requirements of a 2 cap. Shambles

In that case I withdraw my advice. I clearly don't know Stew and have made some poor assumptions. Even a short course will not produce a 2 cap without him knowing how to hit the ball clean and regularly. Thanks for the info. This is a puzzle to me as I don't accept that any well made Iron will be picky about the places it can be played. Maybe Stew is more distracted than he thinks, considering that he just left a place he considers home. Shambles

Sounds to me like you might have answered my question in this post. The fairways you left behind are holding the ball up just that much and you got used to it. It's probably a fairway that makes iron shots real easy and the same for woods. Now that you are playing in less lush conditions with not enough grass to hold up the ball, you lose some of the performance you are used to and even some direction. My guess is that you are striking the big ball before the small ball and so close that you can miss the fact you are doing so. The solution, if this is the case, is simple. Just address the ball as normal, take easy comfortable swings, but with authority, and keep your eyes on the ball long enough to see the club strike the ball. As this becomes easier, go back to your normal swing speed but continue to try to see the club strike the ball before trying to see where it went. This is best done on very thin grass or bare ground, but can actually be done in lush grass too. You are actually just trying to hit the small ball before the big ball. Shambles

Not necessarily for all but world wide 24 hour reporting has pressed the available budgets of the enormously enlarged news organizations. Fox, on the other hand, only makes the most shallow attempt at being a news organization. It is an opinion channel that makes a conscious attempt to appeal to the lowest common denominator. It's not even really an organizations of opinions as the commentators repeat each other the whole day long. Watch one minuit of Fox and you have the whole day. Shambles

I can also believe that he probably has the right flex for himself in the shafts he installed. However, just for the fun of it, I would suggest he try checking them all again, including a very good measure of the shaft length. When it comes to swinging, shaft length is very important to consistency and even a half inch short can cause a lot of strange problems. We get used to taking a stance bending the knees just the right amount, having the ball just the right place and swinging with just the right timing. All these are affected by shaft length. I'd say double check all the measures just to be that much more sure. If it still does not work out, have a session with a good swing pro. Shambles

Spoon, I'd be very intersted in how the COG will be moved to the center. Seems to me you would be bending the hosel or adding a ton of weight but in both cases you might end up with a change in the toe swing. Please take a ton of before and after pictures. Shambles

I am also very much impressed by the orderly manner in which the Japanese have confronted the disaster that they have. The sight of the Japanese standing in line to purchase food and supplies is a testament of the quality of the Japanese society. We could all benefit from emulating them. Shambles

Likewise, I have a friend who bought an entire set complete with bag of Burners and he progressed with that set. He thought it real until one of the iron heads, I forget which, broke in two. It was the head that broke into two peices. He no longer patronizes the shop that sold it to him but I doubt the shop is overly concerned as they closed less than a year after. He left his Driver here with me but look as I might, I can't see where it can be identified as fake. I'll probably give it a try one of these days. Shambles

I have Spoon's old Roddio. It was purchased by a friend who found it noodle soft for his swing on an old Epon and became desperate to sell it to me. Of course I refused to buy it regardless that it suited me well. A year or so later he sold it to me at sacrifice level and I put it into a 909 D3 but the shaft came out a bit stiff. Still very usefull but stiffer than it used to be. The former owner confirmed it was now playing stiffer than in his Epon and is now trying the club out while searching for trade bait. Shambles

I'm inclined to suspect that the smaller size and smaller market might have been chosen as a more stable long term plan for the company. Of course, I don't know this as a fact. I just consider it an option for any business. Size brings more income but it also brings a larger fixed expense and can, under many conditions, represent a less stable platform. Shambles

I sympathize. First, what constitutes midsize ? The eye 2 was considered a very large club until the advent of the Callaway X 12 and the succeeding bretherin. Since then the eye 2 has the look of being midsize to my eyes. I understand you have some old callaways. Is it possible for you to ask the seller to photograph the club head against and beside a straightedge and send that photo to you ? You could then measure your old callaways and have a frame of reference. I would have asked the seller to photograph the club against another club but the seller might not have one you are familiar with. The photo should be taken 90* to the club to show size rather than beauty, and front and back are important for identification purposes. Email is fast and cheap. Shambles

I have no idea of how bad the rust development is on your club, nor if it's even rust and not just the darkness of the metal. I suggest you just wash thoroughly with clean water and brush vigorously with a stiff nylon brush, stiff enough to clean your bathroom floor, or driveway. Subsequently, run your thumb along the grooves and all over the face and back, feeling for pits and sharp spots, which would be indicative of rust damage. I doubt it will be that damaged as it takes rust a fair amount of time to eat metal unless it's gun steel, galvanized steel, or some other hardened steel. Mild steel is very resistant to rusting and I think many or most raw wedges would be made of that metal as it's cheaper and a lot easier to work. However there are different grades of mild steel so you still need to examine closely. If you want the lazy man's way of cleaning your clubs, find a small plastic container that can hold enough water to cover the hosel and add a few tablets of denture cleaner. I left a BeCu putter to soak overnight and found a very clean putter the next morning. Shambles

Sounds like some sort of polymer and not crystal. Crystal might not survive bag chatter and the occasional temper display. It might not handle scratches very well if it's polymer. Shambles

The only reason glasses fall off your face would be that they are the wrong size. If glasses won't stay on when you look down at your shoes, change them and look for a pair that do. Shambles

Here is a subject I've never even tried to get any knowledge on. I guess a copy of this book will be on my get for myself Christmas list. It's about time I opened my eyes to new directions. Shambles

Depending on the amount of Nickel mixed with the carbon steel, this might qualify as a stainless steel which, to me, makes this an attractive wedge. If it's just plated, that makes it just another plated club. I like the looks of the club but am wondering about the bounce, if any. I'm currently trying out a raw Fourteen MT 28 low bounce and it needs attention for use but has a very sharp bite. Fairly well forces me to drop the ball closer to the pin. It needs attention because I sometimes end up taking very shallow cuts of the fairway if I don't pay attention. What's the bounce on this new club ? I've been told it's zero bounce but I doubt that. Bounce is supposed to be what makes these clubs easier to use in the sand. Shambles

I have a sonartec 3W 14* but cannot identify the model right now as it's locked away in my car. Regardless, it's a 350 but I forced a 335 to fit with steel filled epoxy because it was the only shaft I had at the time. It's worked well enough to suit me. Shambles

You never really know what words people will latch on to. I don't much care about the metal being used but am rather upset about the false advertising and the subsequent equivocations. Shambles

Sure you'll do your best to deliver the genuine article but really, how does a consumer figure out whether he recieved the genuine article and it was just wrong for him, or if it was a counterfeit that got past you, or past your supplier. I'm disinclined to complain or return products as the cost of doing so is too often not worth the time and trouble. This business is heavily reliant on trust and when I'm wrong as a consumer there is really nothing more to do than suck it up or throw more money into the mix. The problem of counterfeits falls into the industries hands. You could probably help by exposing them and showing why they can be considered counterfeits but that would also be helping the counterfeiter improve his disguise. It might be a tired old solution but I think the only real way for a consumer to protect himself is to ONLY buy from a licensed retailer, or a retailer who personally stands behind his products. Trust is truly a very important part of this business. Shambles