ant

indeed they are, have them 3-P. they should play very nice and sweet with those nippon shafts in them too.

dunno man, i thought for your club head speed and probably aggressive transition and release those what should we call them extra premium shafts can actually make some difference like you can get something thats real stiff and recovers real quick but at the same time still has some nice feel to it in which case you could say ok this is what premium materials do for me and this is what i pay for but anyways while i'm not even close to being a ho by internet forum standards i know what you are saying.

to be honest i think any 1k shaft is hugely overpriced especially in comparison to its real production cost for any major manufacturing company. the only shaft from that range that i have tried was tphd which used to be around 1k at release and its nice shaft and all but it did absolutely nothing to justify its price tag to me, it just didnt deliver any huge gap between itself and everything else that cost 2-3 times less, apart from its price so it wasnt anything like i could turn around and say oh now i see why it cost 1k.

dunno man, have no inside dope on that. i think that it would make sense for them to leverage mitsubishi materials and manufacturing to cut costs because aldila even tho they had they own prepreg manufacturing they werent doing so good in profits. whether they gonna keep the actual manufacturing in us or japan dunno, i dont even know if mitsubishi shafts are made in japan because mitsubishi has manufacturing in us and elsewhere.

i didnt realize they have to rig it the whole thing, i thought its just some very high tech clip on style sensor unit that can read all those things somehow. what you describe sounds similar to an old true temper system then but without the awkward wiring part.

wow! not all might be lost for you tho given Mitsubishi Rayon owns Aldila now.

played quick nine with it and i think i only hit two shots with it. one full pitch shot and one shot which was kinda in between pitch/chip from close range to clear the wall of elevated sloping away green and feed to the pin down the slope. full shot wasnt perfect but close enough, the other one almost went in, stopped pin level for tap in. not too bad considering i had no practice time with this wedge apart from hitting small flops and chips with it in the garden. its definitely a bit of a lower traj and has some bite on it, nothing shocking tho. what i hated is cleaning the grooves on this thing is a bitch. the course was pretty dry (been very hot lately) but ground has alot of clay in it which never really gets too dry and sort of turns into a thick hard paste kinda substance. grooves and milling on this thing just a perfect trap for it and even with wet towel in hand it was a challenge to get out quickly.

thanx guys. i guess only people at nippon really know exact specs for all those prototypes and how they differ to retail models. found some old threads over at wrx and one was spoon thread where someone posted the info on several codes that came from nippon rep. whole bunch of different code prototypes on ebay with some codes i cannot even find any references to anywhere. and people buy that stuff, amazing.

just wondering if anybody here in the know on how all those modus 3 tour shafts differ. standard models as well as whole bunch of different prototypes out there that seem to differ in weight, balance and profile. 2g18, 2f15 etc. what would be the lowest kickpoint model with most rigid butt and mid sections among them ? anything else out there that would match said profile in steel or graphite ?

i'm just curious whether or not there is any truth to it and if it actually does something for a wedge or its just a gimmick. another wedge maker Renegar is talking about the same thing in their marketing material tho they address it differently via stiffer tip shaft solution "Many players will want to play the ball a little toward the toe with our wedges – particularly on chips and partial shots - our firmer shaft tip reduces the "droop" phenomenon on slower swing shots (this is the reason so many even good players "shank" their wedges occassionally)."

one more thing i thought worth mentioning here if you really wanna figure this out. mizuno has this shaft fitting rig called mizuno shaft optimizer. its basically a small device that clips to the shaft and feeds data to computer. i dont think they sell it but if you have a mizuno custom fitting place nearby you can probably take a few wedges there and test. one of the things it measures is toe down bend.

i would just measure everything i can so you have a set of reference points you can use for your next build and then build to the same exact specs and the only difference would be head design. like you i'm very skeptical about it, i think if you can build to exact same specs but different head it should work for you just the same.

i just wanted to clarify this because i think there is some confusion about this whole heel/toe weighting thing with irons. what it really does it controls the clubhead moi about the shaft axis. the farther away from the shaft axis the weight goes the higher that moi would be and the harder it would be to rotate the face shut. hypothetically if you made a club where cg would be exactly in line with the shaft it would offer no resistance to rotation. the trick is you have to rotate it in the first place and from that it becomes a workability factor not a hit that club and its gonna make it draw for you automatically factor. if the later was true then most golfers who suffer from push slice and come from outside in with wide open face would only need a set of old long hosel short blade macgregors to cure that (and maybe they do but for other reasons that would be moot here ). an iron with cg closer to the shaft axis is a more neutral design meaning it interferes less with what you are doing thus its more workable and personally i think this is how it should be but it doesnt make you do things what comes out is what you put in. regarding toe down in a wedge, again, this is just my speculation based on their marketing blurb posted earlier on another thread. i dont think its matters unless the weight and flex go to something more of extreme but then again what i think can be completely off and those guys might have calculations and data to say otherwise. i cant tell why that wedge works for you, its all just a guesswork and having fun talking golf gear. nobody can tell you why unless they measure every parameter of the one that doesnt work and the one that does and make conclusions based on that. if that was possible to determine based on marketing blurb then fitters wont exist and people would just buy golf clubs off the internet (oh, wait, what) :) seriously tho why cant you talk to the guy who designed it and give us here the skinny on what exactly that design does and how it affects things like the stuff we talked about here so far. that should be interesting and educational.

grab an old style heel shafted no offset blade putter and repeat your experiment, see if it makes any difference.

it would if you are trying to turn the toe yes it would make it easier but it wont turn the toe in for you. my understanding of what they are doing with this is based on that marketing blurb so its just a best guess/speculation kinda thing on my part and from that they are not trying to deal with workability part of it but instead focusing on minimizing the effects shaft bend has on clubface orientation when cg is is trying to align with the shaft centerline on release. so if you are turning the face in thats not gonna help you with keeping it square, if anything its gonna make it easier to turn it in ie more workable design but if you are dumping a heavy clubhead on a weak shaft while trying to hit a cut it might just help you do that instead of pulling it left if the face is shot and becomes square to path due to shaft deflection from cg trying to align itself. and before you ask i honestly have no idea how much effect that stuff has in reality and if it really works or just a gimmick or corner case solution of sorts, its hard to imagine it would have any dramatic effect but those guys probably have heaps of testing data and calculations and i dont so take this with a grain of salt either way.

that would probably take alot of tape on a wedge like bold as it seems to be nearly as heavy as miura and miura makes heavy wedges.

if i guess what it is will i get this wedge ?! :) yeah there was a thread not so long ago on their irons with exact same design and someone posted a lost in translation (either from jp to en or from engineering to marketing) marketing blurb which basically said they did it to reduce toe down effect and shots left and it kinda didnt make sense all together. what i think they were trying to do is essentially get the cog closer to the shaft centerline and prevent the face closing as much as it would on a more towards the toe cog placement trying to align itself to the shaft centerline and closing the face more. one of the ways to do it would be shifting the cog closer to the heel in this case. so thats all theory and my best guess at what they where trying to do. it kinda makes sense with long irons and maybe mid irons but short irons and wedges in reality i think it has to be a tip flexible shaft, heavy clubhead and aggressive hit to make a real difference. still, if it cures your pull maybe it makes a difference in your case. maybe its 1150. its pretty stable shaft i think, i had a set for awhile as well. another thing is onset you mention. that again would close the face less and its probably on purpose in this design in relation to what i said above on cog placement. maybe its a combo of all these things or this wedge simply felt right to you and that affected how you hit it like you said, who knows. anyway i did mention on their irons thread i like the way this design looks, something original. this wedge here i would grind the back of the sole heel side to make that line disappear into the heel at the same angle the muscle portion is shaped and that would be about perfect.

yeah flops with it real fun dont think i hit anything that feels that way on flops. probably be a while til i can get out to the range/course but if i spot anything worth sharing here will write another post then.

wanted to share some initial impressions with you guys. just got my 60 delivered this morning and couldnt resist giving it a quick try in the garden :) the only thing close to a full shot i can do there is a flop shot (and pray i dont blade it) and this wedge feels very different but in a good way. what i mean is usually to me flops feel relatively weak to a regular shot but this one feels super solid and the feel and sound is like compressing the ball on a regular shot. the feel probably has to do with alot more meat at the top and the sound i really dunno, maybe it comes from those holes at the bottom trapping air or something but it just goes POP (seriously this is the best i can do), sounds and feels like well compressed shot and i dont think i'm compressing it much on flops. well anyway i dont recall anybody else giving this a mention, maybe just my perception. small shots more solid feeling than say miura 1957 wedges i play now but it feels like the ball sticks to the face for what seems like a very long time. small shots i certainly prefer miura feel better tho i like more solid feel on full shots, will see about that as well as what the ball actually does on the green. regarding the balance. i really tried hard to pay attention and if i can feel anything unusual but there was nothing out of ordinary for me so far. i didnt go very hard at flops in fact i dont like to hit wedges hard but when i get a chance to hit the range gonna give it another try just to see if i can feel anything different. shaft is x100 not the stock one. CoG is certainly shifted more towards the top. did a hang test on it side by side to comparable 60 shape/size/offset more traditional design with wider sole and most of the meat at the bottom and the difference can be clearly seen tho its not anything shocking. it looks nice to me, they did a good job hiding chunky top from address. there is a bit of offset which i can spot at address coming from miura. i dont have a problem with offset per se but prefer not to have or see any on a 60. looks and feels like nice grind too and feels like it plays at lower effective bounce (lets say 8 actual) tho my garden is hardly a proper place to test wedge grinds.

never had ram clubs but i did image search and ram tour grind looks like it has a bit of offset, definitely noticeable. miura 5003 top line is probably as thin as you can get. baby blade might be just a bit thicker because its a smaller head, i cant recall exactly because it was while back i had them in my mitts last time. alot of that has to do with how they grind it and what finish they use, like more rounded grind top line would look thinner, satin or any darker finish would look thinner too. if you want no offset you can get a set with the least amount of offset then take it to a good clubmaker and they can bend it to get rid of offset. the finish might suffer a bit but its doable. shape wise grinding to desired shape from a finished product wont work because they gonna shave too much weight so if the manufacturer doesnt offer that kinda deal they can do from their raw heads then it aint gonna work. you can pick a shape you like overall then grind it slightly for more rounded top line and sharper/flatter sole grind and bend it for no offset if you can find someone who can do it professionally for a reasonable price. you wont find anything modern exactly like that out of the box but if you do please let me know.

something like this perhaps :)

you are basically looking for a more old school classic blade and from current jdm stuff thats miura, no contest. least amount of offset, thinnest top line and overall more classic shape. the only thing that might not fit your criteria is that miura are not as soft as some other jdm stuff. if you like it mizuno mushy kinda soft then miura gonna be more solid harder feeling but it tells you exactly where you make contact and any softer feel would just blur it to the point where you start to lose feedback if thats important to you. among current blade models you probably wont find anything with zero offset straight neck boxed toe kinda thing. maybe one of those custom shops can do custom shape grind and bend to get rid of offset completely but i'd imagine its gonna cost you pretty penny coz thats alot of pain in the ass kinda work to do. i know scratch custom dept can do that for you and they charge accordingly, probably some jdm brands can do the same, like buchi mentioned above, maybe some others too but none of the top brands would do that, i dont think so.

ditto dont think you can get a better shaft for its price plus they proper heavy.

feel is a funny thing. i actually hate inserts too and generally prefer stainless steel putters. inserts or modern soft balls just deaden the feel for me while balata feels to me more like a micro version of an iron shot compression going on. i'm not after soft per se but rather after that compression feeling. i know in reality there is probably very little of that going on with a putt but still. thats the only reason i keep coming back to prov, there are cheaper better balls that have all the same or even better characteristics but none of them match the feel on chips and putts for me and while its not even close to balata its the best from the bunch for me and i do this pretty much every season, buy a bunch of sleeves of different models of different brands to try. with modern technology, materials and manufacturing i believe they can create a high quality, tight tolerance and high durability balata but they wont because people gone crazy over distance, straight flight and steep descent dropping for control.

i think they do it mostly for feel these days. with balata and even last gen balata (which was slightly harder) before they stopped making them it really doesnt make much difference if your club is forged by endo or enchanted by gandalf or has a copper underlay or you are hitting a stainless steel blade (think macgregors made in 40s-50s) the thing just pretty much melts on the face regardless. and its not like i'm saying the grass was greener back then as i have a small stock of various gens balata balls and regularly play them (as well as persimmon woods, in fact i play my persimmons more often than modern gear these days). also putting is delight. i truly think the best thing they can do for this game is to bring that old ball back and standardize it.