True loft and face angle of drivers

[gocchin]

GDO picked up a bunch of retail drivers of the rack to see how the lofts and face angles measured out. It's interesting how we always wonder if drivers are true to loft and how the face angle really plays out. Here are some results. Remember this is just a sampling and actual lofts may vary even between similar models duet to variance in manufacturing tolerance.

Titleist 907D2 8.5*

Measured Loft = 10* Face Angle = Open 2*

Tourstage X-Drive 430 9.5*

Measured Loft = 10.5* Face Angle = Open 2*

Tourstage X-Drive 430P 9.5*

Measured Loft = 10.5* Face Angle = Open 0.5*

Daiwa ONOFF Plus 10*

Measured Loft = 11* Face Angle = Open 2.5*

TaylorMade Burner TP 9.5*

Measured Loft = 10.5* Face Angle = Square

Titleist 907D1 9.5*

Measured Loft = 11.0* Face Angle = Open 2.0*

Nike SQ Sumo 9.5*

Measured Loft = 10.0* Face Angle = Closed 1.0*

TaylorMade R7 425 TP 9.5*

Measured Loft = 11.0* Face Angle = Open 0.5*

Ping Rapture 9.0*

Measured Loft = 10.0* Face Angle = Square

Mizuno MP Craft 425 9.5*

Measured Loft = 10.0* Face Angle = Square

XXIO Hard Spec 9.0*

Measured Loft = 9.5* Face Angle = Closed 0.5*

Yamaha Inpres X 425V 10.0*

Measured Loft = 10.5* Face Angle = Closed 1.0*

TaylorMade New R7 XR 10.5*

Measured Loft = 11.0* Face Angle = Closed 0.5*

Nike Sumo Squared 9.5*

Measured Loft = 11.0* Face Angle = Closed 1.5*

Honma Beres MG712 10.0*

Measured Loft = 12.0* Face Angle = Closed 0.5*

Miura Precious Edition MD390 9.0*

Measured Loft = 10.0* Face Angle = Closed 2.0*

Mizuno JPX E500 10.0*

Measured Loft = 10.5* Face Angle = Closed 1.5*

XXIO 460 10.0*

Measured Loft = 11.0* Face Angle = Square

Yonex NanoV 10.0*

Measured Loft = 12.5* Face Angle = Closed 1.0*

Callaway FT-i 9.0*

Measured Loft = 11.0* Face Angle = Closed 0.5*

Callaway Hyper ERC 9.5*

Measured Loft = 11.5* Face Angle = Closed 1.0*

Tourstage ViQ MX 460 10.5*

Measured Loft = 12.0* Face Angle = Closed 0.5*

Cleveland Hi Bore XL 9.5*

Measured Loft = 11.0* Face Angle = Open 0.5*

PRGR T3 502 Silver 10.5*

Measured Loft = 11.0* Face Angle = Square

Srixon ZR600 9.5*

Measured Loft = 9.5* Face Angle = Closed 1.5*

Yamaha Inpres X 460D 10.*

Measured Loft = 11.0* Face Angle = Closed 1.5*

Callaway FT-5 9.0*

Measured Loft = 11.0* Face Angle = Closed 1.0*

TaylorMade R7 SuperQuad TP 9.5*

Measured Loft = 11.0* Face Angle = Open 1.5*

MacTec NV-nx 10.0*

Measured Loft = 10.5* Face Angle = Closed 3.5*

[ajaykkr]

No wonder the absolutely straight shot is rarer and rarer.

Also, looks like the famed japanese quality control and low tolerance levels are not witnessed in drivers...no different than the US drivers.

I wonder if our custom drivers are similarly off.. ..

Edited June 7, 2007 by ajaykkr

[idrive]

This is why custom fit/made clubs are so important.

Do you think the Pro's clubs lies and lofts are off???

[gocchin]

I measured my Epon at my clubfitter's and it was pretty much as ordered. 1.5* closed and 1* flat on the lie. Chris warned me that closing the face that much might increase the loft slightly and it did but nothing extreme as it is just between 10.5* and 11.0*. Epon quality is pretty good. (^_^).

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Looks like they all have the same production issues. I will show this article to Epon see what they think.

It also shows that most golfers really cant tell what they need if they are judging their numbers based off of the wrong ones in the first place.

Some factories have smaller variation tolerance, others charge extra to get within 1* +/-.

[gocchin]

Though we have to keep in mind that on some of the Japanese drivers they have closed face angles on purpose, to help the average golfer in Japan square the face. In the specs on Srixon's site for the XXIO HR (which is not listed here), they do state that it is 4.0* Closed!!!

[ajaykkr]

I measured my Epon at my clubfitter's and it was pretty much as ordered. 1.5* closed and 1* flat on the lie. Chris warned me that closing the face that much might increase the loft slightly and it did but nothing extreme as it is just between 10.5* and 11.0*. Epon quality is pretty good. (^_^).

Good to know on Epon. Actually, i remember comparing my two Epons (0.5*) and Square and they appeared to the naked eye ok.

[Phillip Alexander]

My Talor Made LOOKS square.

My KZG LOOKS closed.

The Taylor does breed confidence at address.

That said are our swings and our games that good, that + or - 1* of loft would make a difference. It would be interesting to see what difference it would make to Iron Byron.

Never the less my friends, I share your passion for perfection in equipment, although that is probably just my pendantic virgo nature.

[gyli84]

Just the kind of info we need to make informed buying decisions. Thanks gocchin!

[Lennie]

GDO picked up a bunch of retail drivers of the rack to see how the lofts and face angles measured out. It's interesting how we always wonder if drivers are true to loft and how the face angle really plays out. Here are some results:

Titleist 907D2 8.5*

Measured Loft = 10* Face Angle = Open 2*

Tourstage X-Drive 430 9.5*

Measured Loft = 10.5* Face Angle = Open 2*

Tourstage X-Drive 430P 9.5*

Measured Loft = 10.5* Face Angle = Open 0.5*

Daiwa ONOFF Plus 10*

Measured Loft = 11* Face Angle = Open 2.5*

TaylorMade Burner TP 9.5*

Measured Loft = 10.5* Face Angle = Square

Titleist 907D1 9.5*

Measured Loft = 11.0* Face Angle = Open 2.0*

Nike SQ Sumo 9.5*

Measured Loft = 10.0* Face Angle = Closed 1.0*

TaylorMade R7 425 TP 9.5*

Measured Loft = 11.0* Face Angle = Open 0.5*

Ping Rapture 9.0*

Measured Loft = 10.0* Face Angle = Square

Mizuno MP Craft 425 9.5*

Measured Loft = 10.0* Face Angle = Square

XXIO Hard Spec 9.0*

Measured Loft = 9.5* Face Angle = Closed 0.5*

Yamaha Inpres X 425V 10.0*

Measured Loft = 10.5* Face Angle = Closed 1.0*

TaylorMade New R7 XR 10.5*

Measured Loft = 11.0* Face Angle = Closed 0.5*

Nike Sumo Squared 9.5*

Measured Loft = 11.0* Face Angle = Closed 1.5*

Honma Beres MG712 10.0*

Measured Loft = 12.0* Face Angle = Closed 0.5*

Miura Precious Edition MD390 9.0*

Measured Loft = 10.0* Face Angle = Closed 2.0*

Mizuno JPX E500 10.0*

Measured Loft = 10.5* Face Angle = Closed 1.5*

XXIO 460 10.0*

Measured Loft = 11.0* Face Angle = Square

Yonex NanoV 10.0*

Measured Loft = 12.5* Face Angle = Closed 1.0*

Callaway FT-i 9.0*

Measured Loft = 11.0* Face Angle = Closed 0.5*

Callaway Hyper ERC 9.5*

Measured Loft = 11.5* Face Angle = Closed 1.0*

Tourstage ViQ MX 460 10.5*

Measured Loft = 12.0* Face Angle = Closed 0.5*

Cleveland Hi Bore XL 9.5*

Measured Loft = 11.0* Face Angle = Open 0.5*

PRGR T3 502 Silver 10.5*

Measured Loft = 11.0* Face Angle = Square

Srixon ZR600 9.5*

Measured Loft = 9.5* Face Angle = Closed 1.5*

Yamaha Inpres X 460D 10.*

Measured Loft = 11.0* Face Angle = Closed 1.5*

Callaway FT-5 9.0*

Measured Loft = 11.0* Face Angle = Closed 1.0*

TaylorMade R7 SuperQuad TP 9.5*

Measured Loft = 11.0* Face Angle = Open 1.5*

MacTec NV-nx 10.0*

Measured Loft = 10.5* Face Angle = Closed 3.5*

Interesting on the Callaway ERC Hyper. Endo makes those heads for Callaway. I just got Callaway USA to replace one that I had purchased from Chris. It's a 10.5..........hard for me to get my mind around the fact that it might be 12.5!!!

[Blader-X]

I would expect clubs to be off here and there but what I find very interesting is that in every example given, the true lofts were higher each time than the stated loft. I would have thought that you would see some true lofts being lower than stated lofts and some higher just do to randomness of manufacturing. However, all are higher. Maybe this is something within the industry to help golfers perform thus help their sales?

Why are they are all higher and not some lower and some higher?

Conspiracy?

It would be nice if a driver's true loft was the actual stated loft.

[ajaykkr]

My Talor Made LOOKS square.

My KZG LOOKS closed.

The Taylor does breed confidence at address.

That said are our swings and our games that good, that + or - 1* of loft would make a difference. It would be interesting to see what difference it would make to Iron Byron.

Never the less my friends, I share your passion for perfection in equipment, although that is probably just my pendantic virgo nature.

I am less concerned with loft....but face angle is important... if a square driver that I buy is 2* open, then its a fade bias driver and I need not fight it, thinking its my swing... or not wonder why when i tried a hard fade.... it turned into hard slice....

Information is King....just asking for the right info is not that bad.

[drewspin]

for every degree open, the driver will have 1 less degree effective loft (assuming the face at impact is square to the target line).

For every degree closed, the driver will have 1 more degree effective loft (assuming the face at impact is square to the target line.)

The Titleist 907D1 9.5* with a Measured Loft of 11* and a Face Angle of Open 2* will play to about a 9*

The Callaway FT-5 9.0*, with a Measured Loft of 11.0* and a Face Angle of Closed 1.0* will play to about a 12*

Bottom line is that you cannot judge a club by what's stamped on the sole.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Here is the reply from Epon HQ:

The tolerance for Driver loft & lie angle is +/-0.5 and face angle is as well.

Please see the following.

Technity 460 9.5

Spec: loft 9.75 lie 60 ( as stated ) face angle close 0.5 ( as stated )

Technity 460 10.5

Spec: loft 10.75 lie 60.5 ( as stated ) face angle close 0.5 ( as stated )

I was told in the past its +/- 0.25, whatever the case the biggest difference is exactly that and this is far tighter than any other brand.

Keep in mind these are for drivers direct from the epon factory. When built at TSG if the exact head is not in stock we will go up to .75 .

I have seen hundreds of EPON heads and as far as weight goes they are all 199, 199.5, 200 grams heavy.

[Breal]

Thats funny that the lofts are so off, no wonder its hard for a player to get the right driver, andwhy you can hit even a 9.5 like a 3 wood lol. Its also classic that Srixon ha the only true loft thats interesting.

[ClubHoUno]

Thanks for the information Gocchin

Very interesting but I'm not as surprised as many others......almost no driver in the world will play true to loft.......only drivers direct from the tour van will do that, and they are often opened up a bit anyway.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Thanks for the information Gocchin

Very interesting but I'm not as surprised as many others......almost no driver in the world will play true to loft.......only drivers direct from the tour van will do that, and they are often opened up a bit anyway.

Drivers from the tour van are simply hand picked heads in the states which is just about as far as you can get from the manufacture who has tons of drivers that play true to loft. Sad thing is on Tour they reem hosels or bend to open face angles for even Duval and other popular players when you guys are getting them factory adjusted at Endo for Epon product.

Any brand can produce drivers that play true to loft, they just need to pay extra for the tighter tolerance. Even Titleist in the past has had tighter specs for their Japan issue gear with the U.S stuff being loose. Not sure if thats the case anymore but it was four years ago.

There are tons of drivers or brands you can request true loft specs from, many are even component co's

[drewspin]

Any brand can produce drivers that play true to loft, they just need to pay extra for the tighter tolerance. Even Titleist in the past has had tighter specs for their Japan issue gear with the U.S stuff being loose. Not sure if thats the case anymore but it was four years ago.

There are tons of drivers or brands you can request true loft specs from, many are even component co's

Very true.

It is also very difficult to measure loft on drivers consistently from one person/measuring device to another, because curved soles and faces are not easy to measure consistently that may also be at play here.

[jmac]

it is not a perfect 1:1 ratio for face angle and loft. it is more like 1.7* open decreases loft by 1* degree so 2* open would be just over 1* of loft adjustment.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Very true.

It is also very difficult to measure loft on drivers consistently from one person/measuring device to another, because curved soles and faces are not easy to measure consistently that may also be at play here.

Exactly, with the Mitchell steelclub plus machine which they tout as their best you cant read Epons due to the sole and volume. You cant do many drivers with that machine.

it is not a perfect 1:1 ratio for face angle and loft. it is more like 1.7* open decreases loft by 1* degree so 2* open would be just over 1* of loft adjustment.

Awesome info, I was not aware of that, thank you but may I ask how you came to this conclusion?

[tsg4tch]

for every degree open, the driver will have 1 less degree effective loft (assuming the face at impact is square to the target line).

For every degree closed, the driver will have 1 more degree effective loft (assuming the face at impact is square to the target line.)

The Titleist 907D1 9.5* with a Measured Loft of 11* and a Face Angle of Open 2* will play to about a 9*...

I think it's 1 degree open gets you .6 degrees less loft.

So the Titleist example above would have an effective loft of 9.8* (2* open X .06 = 1.2* - 11* measured = 9.8*)