Old better than new

[ukok]

As my existing irons are on the fragile side, I decided to delve deep into my garage and release my old Fourteen 770 TC forged (JDM) irons. It took about 30 range balls to dial them in

and for me to start thinking why oh why did I ever stop using them. Not only are they longer, softer and more forgiving than my Yamaha's which is not easy to say, I compared them to several new

models from Mizuno, Callaway and Nike and the Fourteen's performed better by far on each occasion. I beleive the Fourteen's were forged by Endo and can only think that in the one piece forged market although the

design of the club changes it does not guarantee an improvement.

Unfortunately, I will still buy the next new model available and return the Fourteen's to their exile.

[ant]

why ?! if you love those irons and they are in a good shape whats the point changing them ?

Unfortunately, I will still buy the next new model available and return the Fourteen's to their exile.

[ukok]

Why, is all down to the human brain and psyche.

In golf terminology, why do we want to buy the latest PRGR egg spoon when the previous model was no.1, why do we wait evey year for the new

Epon/Yamaha/Tourstage models when our existing clubs are in reality are just as good.

The answer is, dont ask me!.

[ant]

dunno man, personally im very interested in golf equipment technology and design and i can relate to that somewhat from that perspective but for the clubs i use i found it very hard to switch once i find a particular club/s that i like. for example i had these old wedges that are very beaten up so got a new set to replace them but man if i didnt have to replace them due to wear i would never do that, just feels uncomfortable to me. i like trying new clubs, its fun, but re-shuffling what works well and what i like in my bag is completely different story.

Why, is all down to the human brain and psyche.

In golf terminology, why do we want to buy the latest PRGR egg spoon when the previous model was no.1, why do we wait evey year for the new

Epon/Yamaha/Tourstage models when our existing clubs are in reality are just as good.

The answer is, dont ask me!.

[gbs]

As my existing irons are on the fragile side, I decided to delve deep into my garage and release my old Fourteen 770 TC forged (JDM) irons. It took about 30 range balls to dial them in

and for me to start thinking why oh why did I ever stop using them. Not only are they longer, softer and more forgiving than my Yamaha's which is not easy to say, I compared them to several new

models from Mizuno, Callaway and Nike and the Fourteen's performed better by far on each occasion. I beleive the Fourteen's were forged by Endo and can only think that in the one piece forged market although the

design of the club changes it does not guarantee an improvement.

Unfortunately, I will still buy the next new model available and return the Fourteen's to their exile.

LOL, i think you are just like most members in this forum.

[Bunker18]

Why, is all down to the human brain and psyche.

In golf terminology, why do we want to buy the latest PRGR egg spoon when the previous model was no.1, why do we wait evey year for the new

Epon/Yamaha/Tourstage models when our existing clubs are in reality are just as good.

The answer is, dont ask me!.

Good question! I don't have a clue to the answer. So don't ask me either! LOL.

I'm waiting for my new PRGR to replace my old one when that worked wonders for me. If the new tech can increase my yardage by a couple yards and increase forgiveness my just a smidge...IM IN!

[+TourSpecGolfer]

great point ukok. It's the early adopter in all of us. We all feel the tinge of hurt when a newer model of what we own is released, well I know I'm that way not only in regards to golf clubs but electronics and even firearms.

[ant]

technology has the shelf life of a banana. golf technology does not move even remotely as fast as electronics tho, maybe due to rules/restrictions in place and good old true blade is still a good old true blade, no gimmicks. i'm really impressed by recent shaft technology and how its developing tho, like what we were talking about earlier ie high end graphite stuff. guns, i dunno, ak47 and all its various mods been around for ages and still sell like hot cakes afaik.

great point ukok. It's the early adopter in all of us. We all feel the tinge of hurt when a newer model of what we own is released, well I know I'm that way not only in regards to golf clubs but electronics and even firearms.

[jimmcman]

Last winter I acquired two more vintage Wilson R-90's (circa 1975)

I sent them to Ron Price at Nomad Golfwrx and had them refinished, remilled and reshafted and added them to my collection.

I believe that a more versatile wedge has never been made.

I use it for cut lobs, blasting out of bunkers, pitch shots from tight lies, full shots from 70 - 90 yds, and any shot that requires a particularly deft touch.

I have tried to replace it a dozen times, and have never been able to find a club that I can comfortably use to hit all those shots.

Edited November 8, 2010 by jimmcman

[Goodsie]

Unfortunately, I will still buy the next new model available and return the Fourteen's to their exile.

Shazaaaammmm!! We all are looking for that "lightening in a bottle" and every now and then some design engineer put together a very special design that breaks through the barrier and takes us to the next level.....by a whole two yards....Wow!! Its the pull of the unknown that is always eating at me that this may be the next "Lightening Bolt of Genius" with the next offering/upgrade.

[ant]

LOL :)

Shazaaaammmm!! We all are looking for that "lightening in a bottle" and every now and then some design engineer put together a very special design that breaks through the barrier and takes us to the next level.....by a whole two yards....Wow!! Its the pull of the unknown that is always eating at me that this may be the next "Lightening Bolt of Genius" with the next offering/upgrade.

[supo]

As my existing irons are on the fragile side, I decided to delve deep into my garage and release my old Fourteen 770 TC forged (JDM) irons. It took about 30 range balls to dial them in

and for me to start thinking why oh why did I ever stop using them. Not only are they longer, softer and more forgiving than my Yamaha's which is not easy to say, I compared them to several new

models from Mizuno, Callaway and Nike and the Fourteen's performed better by far on each occasion. I beleive the Fourteen's were forged by Endo and can only think that in the one piece forged market although the

design of the club changes it does not guarantee an improvement.

Unfortunately, I will still buy the next new model available and return the Fourteen's to their exile.

funny u should mention the fourteens as your " in the garage clubs " , beceuase i have set of the tc1000s that are exactly in that mould. every round i play with them, which isnt very many....., i hit good irons shots. but for some inextricable reason i never use them. ill only go to them when im mucking around. and i love the feel of them and the ease of them.

i think i must suffer from some horid golfing disease of the mind that forever keeps me searching for some thing "different".

those fourteens are a great feeling iron and i play well with them buti never use them, go figure. ...................,

Edited November 9, 2010 by supo67

[Spoon]

its the nature of the beast and its not confined to golf clubs. watches, automobiles, cellphones, laptops, gadgets etc etc.

its human nature to want to upgrade. well at least for the majority of us. call us suckers of the marketing and capitalist markets.

without this nature manufacturing companies would come to a halt.

im not saying its an essential to upgrade but i dont mind being played by the piper. golf is a game of skill BUT i find the equipment

aspect a major joy, headache and continued pursuit for finding the holy grail. its a never ending process and makes the game much

more enjoyable.

[supo]

its the nature of the beast and its not confined to golf clubs. watches, automobiles, cellphones, laptops, gadgets etc etc.

its human nature to want to upgrade. well at least for the majority of us. call us suckers of the marketing and capitalist markets.

without this nature manufacturing companies would come to a halt.

im not saying its an essential to upgrade but i dont mind being played by the piper. golf is a game of skill BUT i find the equipment

aspect a major joy, headache and continued pursuit for finding the holy grail. its a never ending process and makes the game much

more enjoyable.

here here..!

[daamartin]

here here..!

My handicap oscillates btw 4 and 7 depending on how much I play/ practice. I have played courses in Australia, USA (incl. Hawaii), UK, France, Japan and Malaysia.

My level of confidence in my gear also helps scoring - that's for sure. I think that selecting the right tools for the course setup/ turf/ weather conditions presented is fascinating, or even just how strong/well you feel on a given day!!

I have always loved tinkering with new (and old) gear. So I think this is a good thread - it's amazing how a new head, shaft, grip, or lie angle changes the way a club plays.

Tomorrow I am starting my latest "old meets new" project - pairing some prgr TR900 "neo blade" limited forged iron heads (circa 2005?) with some 125g Aerotech Steelfiber hybrid graphite/steel iron shafts (graphite core, steel filament windings) - the hypothesis to this project is that this combination will play much like my current iron set (which I love!!.....see signature), but with even better feel - and when I play 3 days straight at Barnbougle Dunes in Feb 2011, these will be kind to my 40 year old body, and I will feel every shot!

It's good to be passionate about such things!! - lots of passionate hobbyists on this site - good stuff.

[daamartin]

funny u should mention the fourteens as your " in the garage clubs " , beceuase i have set of the tc1000s that are exactly in that mould. every round i play with them, which isnt very many....., i hit good irons shots. but for some inextricable reason i never use them. ill only go to them when im mucking around. and i love the feel of them and the ease of them.

i think i must suffer from some horid golfing disease of the mind that forever keeps me searching for some thing "different".

those fourteens are a great feeling iron and i play well with them buti never use them, go figure. ...................,

Had the TC-1000s as well and - like you - love-hated them. Loved the feel, could not get used to the look of short irons at address.....

[18th Legion]

. . . I beleive the Fourteen's were forged by Endo and can only think that in the one piece forged market although the

design of the club changes it does not guarantee an improvement.

Can anyone confirm that these are made by the Epon facility in Thailand? (Fourteen states that their 1000 and 910s are made in Thailand, all other heads made in China, not Endo made of course).

[Bunker18]

Can anyone confirm that these are made by the Epon facility in Thailand? (Fourteen states that their 1000 and 910s are made in Thailand, all other heads made in China, not Endo made of course).

The forged Fourteens are made at Endo. I'm assuming Endo Thailand since it says Thailand on their website. The cast clubs are not produced at Endo.

[supo]

The forged Fourteens are made at Endo. I'm assuming Endo Thailand since it says Thailand on their website. The cast clubs are not produced at Endo.

ahhh i didnt lnow that....., no wonder they feel so damn soft!

[gbs]

My handicap oscillates btw 4 and 7 depending on how much I play/ practice. I have played courses in Australia, USA (incl. Hawaii), UK, France, Japan and Malaysia.

My level of confidence in my gear also helps scoring - that's for sure. I think that selecting the right tools for the course setup/ turf/ weather conditions presented is fascinating, or even just how strong/well you feel on a given day!!

I have always loved tinkering with new (and old) gear. So I think this is a good thread - it's amazing how a new head, shaft, grip, or lie angle changes the way a club plays.

Tomorrow I am starting my latest "old meets new" project - pairing some prgr TR900 "neo blade" limited forged iron heads (circa 2005?) with some 125g Aerotech Steelfiber hybrid graphite/steel iron shafts (graphite core, steel filament windings) - the hypothesis to this project is that this combination will play much like my current iron set (which I love!!.....see signature), but with even better feel - and when I play 3 days straight at Barnbougle Dunes in Feb 2011, these will be kind to my 40 year old body, and I will feel every shot!

It's good to be passionate about such things!! - lots of passionate hobbyists on this site - good stuff.

I didn't quite think about it until you quoted "I have always loved tinkering with new (and old) gear. So I think this is a good thread - it's amazing how a new head, shaft, grip, or lie angle changes the way a club plays."

Since I changed my short irons 7-pw. I was more confident attacking the pin with the new set up while actually the difference is the heads and the lie angle. When i go back to the old 7-5 irons i have to readjust the way i hit some how which was totally unnecessary. Funny how the eyes deceives the brain.

Edited November 16, 2010 by gbs

[supo]

Old meets new.....,

So, on sat i took 2 drivers out to Naruasawa to play one of japans finest courses, right dead set under fuji. the 17th par 3 ur hitting str8 into her majesty, simply stunning.

anyway i took my 2 yamahas, the 2010 V 201 10* with quadra fire express 75xs (44.75 x d3 x 324)

and the 08 v 4.6 multiface with the GD p9003x 10* (44.5 x d2 x 323)

used the new model on the fron nine. this has become one of my all time favourite clubs its super long mid launching with plenty of roll out. i dont think ive hit a better feeling driver than this (that includes my mighty epon 102).

i like the fact that it plays a little on the short side(length) for added control ,it certianly doesnt give up any distance. it performed as it always does super straight with a nice littel kick in the tail.i cant move this around reallly, its more point / shoot and let it do its thing for long straight wide courses this is the driver i take out.

Narusawa is certianly not ideal for this , the driving there needs to be accurate and theres plenty of dog legs off the tees to over come, i just wanted to test how id go with it on a tight driving course . and it went superbly. i missed the fariway on the first which is calamatous. and the 2nd(no warm up straight into it , not my ideal start!) hit the rest with good length.

the BIG SURPRISE however, was the peformance on the back nine of the older model driver i made with Mjr D's help. i took his old GD 9003x to see how it goes, BOY this thing is good!

can move it a lot easier than the quadra it s certianly long, i was super pleased , and with greater control than the quadra v201 set up. i missed one fairway by a few feet. back nine , in fact after id calmed my rage down from hitting 2 balls in the drink at he base of the greeen with my WEDGE from 90 yards on 18 to get closed out and take an 8 to get uber stipeed! ......................,i pondered the preformance agaisnt each other, my all time fav. driver the NEW v 201 VS the "OLD beast"

its certainly given me a lovely headache.

To be honest , the control with the older one was better on the day the . length wasnt as far as the new one and the quadra definatly feels better,

but the older head i like the set up look of better.i like the way it sits up a wee bit more and the face angle looks bigger and more hittable than the new model.

if anything it says yamaha make super friccccken good heads for one thing,!!!

i shant be hopping around differnt driver heads any longer its epon and yamaha and shut the gate for me now.

the usual right side favouritism of GD wasnt aparent at all, i didnt slice a single shot .this set up is superb.

cetianly the new model is a better "feel" in every way,and is consistantly longer on miss hits especially , but the older one looks better at address in my eyes and control was better.

I cant get over the feel of the quadra set up but the control of the old model cant be ignored.

technlogy has made the new model better for sure ,but not as much as id thought.

for theprice build of these 2 rivers theres certianly wasnt a clear winner.

if the overall performance and feel is utmost then the newest gear is unmatchable , but on a budget the older one clearly is a better club.

im DEFINATLY getting the new model make no mistake about that as soon as its out.......MINE.

[gbs]

Old meets new.....,

So, on sat i took 2 drivers out to Naruasawa to play one of japans finest courses, right dead set under fuji. the 17th par 3 ur hitting str8 into her majesty, simply stunning.

anyway i took my 2 yamahas, the 2010 V 201 10* with quadra fire express 75xs (44.75 x d3 x 324)

and the 08 v 4.6 multiface with the GD p9003x 10* (44.5 x d2 x 323)

used the new model on the fron nine. this has become one of my all time favourite clubs its super long mid launching with plenty of roll out. i dont think ive hit a better feeling driver than this (that includes my mighty epon 102).

i like the fact that it plays a little on the short side(length) for added control ,it certianly doesnt give up any distance. it performed as it always does super straight with a nice littel kick in the tail.i cant move this around reallly, its more point / shoot and let it do its thing for long straight wide courses this is the driver i take out.

Narusawa is certianly not ideal for this , the driving there needs to be accurate and theres plenty of dog legs off the tees to over come, i just wanted to test how id go with it on a tight driving course . and it went superbly. i missed the fariway on the first which is calamatous. and the 2nd(no warm up straight into it , not my ideal start!) hit the rest with good length.

the BIG SURPRISE however, was the peformance on the back nine of the older model driver i made with Mjr D's help. i took his old GD 9003x to see how it goes, BOY this thing is good!

can move it a lot easier than the quadra it s certianly long, i was super pleased , and with greater control than the quadra v201 set up. i missed one fairway by a few feet. back nine , in fact after id calmed my rage down from hitting 2 balls in the drink at he base of the greeen with my WEDGE from 90 yards on 18 to get closed out and take an 8 to get uber stipeed! ......................,i pondered the preformance agaisnt each other, my all time fav. driver the NEW v 201 VS the "OLD beast"

its certainly given me a lovely headache.

To be honest , the control with the older one was better on the day the . length wasnt as far as the new one and the quadra definatly feels better,

but the older head i like the set up look of better.i like the way it sits up a wee bit more and the face angle looks bigger and more hittable than the new model.

if anything it says yamaha make super friccccken good heads for one thing,!!!

i shant be hopping around differnt driver heads any longer its epon and yamaha and shut the gate for me now.

the usual right side favouritism of GD wasnt aparent at all, i didnt slice a single shot .this set up is superb.

cetianly the new model is a better "feel" in every way,and is consistantly longer on miss hits especially , but the older one looks better at address in my eyes and control was better.

I cant get over the feel of the quadra set up but the control of the old model cant be ignored.

technlogy has made the new model better for sure ,but not as much as id thought.

for theprice build of these 2 rivers theres certianly wasnt a clear winner.

if the overall performance and feel is utmost then the newest gear is unmatchable , but on a budget the older one clearly is a better club.

im DEFINATLY getting the new model make no mistake about that as soon as its out.......MINE.

Why oh why must it be the old beast all the time that prevails although not significantly in every aspects but.... like you i took out my old AF 101 with Rombax F today. I missed how it sets up beautifully and how confident every time i strike it. I agree with you on the feel of the new drivers (Kamui + FE) such a perfect combo with a HUGE roll out even on miss hits.

I am not a big fan of Fujikura but it was given to me for free so oh well might as well put it to good use. I missed how straight i drove with it and how much fun just attacking the ball with it.

Oh well its going back into the garage and only if i am having trouble with the current driver i know that its there to support me during those bad times. LOL

[ukok]

Well, its been almost two weeks now and my old is best part of my brain is in severe conflict with my new is better part of my brain. The Fourteens are keeping their side of the

bargain but the new Yamaha's, are in the pro shop for pre-order and are looking very very nice.

In order to appease this situation, I have re-gripped the fourteens with new white grips, will this gesture fool the weak half of my brain, I just dont know but

I am actiually looking forward to playing with them, which cant be bad.

The Fourteen's were Endo forged, pretty sure in Japan, T will be able to give the definitive answer. Any how, they are as soft as butter left out of the fridge overnight.