Epon AF-Tour vs Yamaha Tour

[supo]

they must be the best looking sticks in the universe

[Spoon]

they must be the best looking sticks in the universe

thanks mate!

reshafted my 4i yesterday with SPB. awesome! but something seems

to be missing, prefer the modus honestly. i will however reshaft it

again with a shimada tour 120 to see what the fuss is about haha

[JMCMB]

Carlo,

Your probably going to prefer the Modus to the heavier, stiffer SPB and Shimada Tours in a 4 iron with a pretty strong loft(302), def try a 7 iron, I think you'll see some different results.. You may still just flat out prefer the Modus(it's a great shaft, and I prefer it in the Yururi Flatbacks to everything else) but I think you'll appreciate the Shimada 120 and SPB a bit more in the 302 7 iron(or any # iron in the AF Tours) than the 4 regardless of if you still prefer the Modus or not.

J.

[Spoon]

Carlo,

Your probably going to prefer the Modus to the heavier, stiffer SPB and Shimada Tours in a 4 iron with a pretty strong loft(302), def try a 7 iron, I think you'll see some different results.. You may still just flat out prefer the Modus(it's a great shaft, and I prefer it in the Yururi Flatbacks to everything else) but I think you'll appreciate the Shimada 120 and SPB a bit more in the 302 7 iron(or any # iron in the AF Tours) than the 4 regardless of if you still prefer the Modus or not.

J.

Jason, i agree, however i dont want to mess around with my 5-pw combo as they are money.

therefore only the 4 iron will be used for experimentation. the spb in the 4 was quite good, feel

was characteristically nspro smooth, kick was good but i want a bit more height. that was the only

thing amiss.

also took notes on our last exchange of pms and will also reshaft my 302 3i with the shimada tour lite.

given the info i gave you regarding my spb experience in #4 should i go the tour or the tour lite on 4?

[supo]

the modus are a lot lot higher than the NS blue

and i thnink in the 3 and 4 will be much easier to hit than the others.

3-4-5 in modus

6-7-8- in shiamada

9-pw in NS blue

now theres a combo!

[JMCMB]

I would give the Tour lite a shot, you'll enjoy the flight alot, you'll get a bit of height without having to swing out your shoes, but at the same time, the trajectory will stay very strong and be really easy to manipulate for a lighter shaft... Do you still gave the Yonex heads? If you do, I think those would be a great to give the Shimada 120s a shot in, possibly SP Blue as well... One thing that's def good to note with the Shimadas is the major strength of them is the utter lack of weaknesses, I don't think you'll hit them and be blown away by anything in particular, but you will notice that there is just straight up nothing wrong with them, I mentioned in another post that I would consider them almost a boring shaft, but what makes them such a joy is how consistent they are, they just flat out perform and do exactly what they're meant to do without anything that jumps out at you as over the top fantastic, but also nothing that gives you a reason to dislike them... It takes a little bit to realize why they're such a solid shaft since nothing jumps out at you right off the bat, but they're just soo balanced that you can almost forget about them entirely, and I really like that alot...

I know the Modus in the 302 5-PW for you are working fantastic, so there's def no reason to mess with that at all(unless you want to)... I figured the height would be the only thing you might have wanted more of from the SP Blue in the 4 iron from the 302, I don't know exactly how the 302s play yet but I figure that they fly lower than the AF Tours considering the lofts are stronger, hopefully I'll receive my 302 Coppers soon and I'll be able to give a much more educated opinion of how they play... But I do know that for me the SP Blues are perfect in the AF Tours because the Blues have such a low, strong trajectory, the AF Tours really fly quite high, and the lofts are some of the weakest and most traditional I have seen, just for some perspective, the AF Tour 7 iron is 2 degrees weaker than the Miuraism 7 iron and 3 degrees weaker than the Yururi Flat back 7 iron, both are blades with quite traditional lofts although the Yururi are a bit stronger than most blades... Pair the very weak lofts with the naturally high flying iron head and they get way up in the air, lol... That's really the reason the SP Blues do so well in the AF Tours in my opinion, they just do such a fantastic job of bringing the flight down to somewhere around perfection ;), and for me, the Blues just feel fantastic with the AF Tour heads, in my opinion it's a perfect match.... So if the 302s have a naturally lower flight, I could def see wanting a bit more height than the SP Blues would give in the long irons...

J.

[JMCMB]

I think that combo would work in just about any set of irons Stew.

I'll get really combo-y

3-4 Crazy Target Tour Lite or Shimada Tour Lite

5-6 Modus

7-8 Shimada Tour or Crazy 120

9-PW SP Blue

J.

[Spoon]

I would give the Tour lite a shot, you'll enjoy the flight alot, you'll get a bit of height without having to swing out your shoes, but at the same time, the trajectory will stay very strong and be really easy to manipulate for a lighter shaft... Do you still gave the Yonex heads? If you do, I think those would be a great to give the Shimada 120s a shot in, possibly SP Blue as well... One thing that's def good to note with the Shimadas is the major strength of them is the utter lack of weaknesses, I don't think you'll hit them and be blown away by anything in particular, but you will notice that there is just straight up nothing wrong with them, I mentioned in another post that I would consider them almost a boring shaft, but what makes them such a joy is how consistent they are, they just flat out perform and do exactly what they're meant to do without anything that jumps out at you as over the top fantastic, but also nothing that gives you a reason to dislike them... It takes a little bit to realize why they're such a solid shaft since nothing jumps out at you right off the bat, but they're just soo balanced that you can almost forget about them entirely, and I really like that alot...

I know the Modus in the 302 5-PW for you are working fantastic, so there's def no reason to mess with that at all(unless you want to)... I figured the height would be the only thing you might have wanted more of from the SP Blue in the 4 iron from the 302, I don't know exactly how the 302s play yet but I figure that they fly lower than the AF Tours considering the lofts are stronger, hopefully I'll receive my 302 Coppers soon and I'll be able to give a much more educated opinion of how they play... But I do know that for me the SP Blues are perfect in the AF Tours because the Blues have such a low, strong trajectory, the AF Tours really fly quite high, and the lofts are some of the weakest and most traditional I have seen, just for some perspective, the AF Tour 7 iron is 2 degrees weaker than the Miuraism 7 iron and 3 degrees weaker than the Yururi Flat back 7 iron, both are blades with quite traditional lofts although the Yururi are a bit stronger than most blades... Pair the very weak lofts with the naturally high flying iron head and they get way up in the air, lol... That's really the reason the SP Blues do so well in the AF Tours in my opinion, they just do such a fantastic job of bringing the flight down to somewhere around perfection ;), and for me, the Blues just feel fantastic with the AF Tour heads, in my opinion it's a perfect match.... So if the 302s have a naturally lower flight, I could def see wanting a bit more height than the SP Blues would give in the long irons...

J.

spot on observations! yeah the blues are a bit of a let down on the longer irons. thats where you would want some height. now in the mid and short irons they

would be absolute seekers. i can already picture it. yeah the shimada tours will be experimented with tomorrow. i will put the lite in my 3 iron and the tour in my

4 iron. if those dont work i can always find other uses for it.

the modus are a lot lot higher than the NS blue

and i thnink in the 3 and 4 will be much easier to hit than the others.

3-4-5 in modus

6-7-8- in shiamada

9-pw in NS blue

now theres a combo

i dont usually like mixing different makes in a combo but i have tried

sp red in my 4,5, 502 irons

sp orange 6,7,83 302 irons

sp blue in my 9,pw, AF TOURS and wedges

that was a lethal combo , could have subsituted the sp reds with the oranges but then again i

was performing mental gymnastics on an olympic level!

now a real good combo stew would be...............drumroll.............3,4,5, ora protos, 6,7,8 2F15 protos and 9,PW,WEDGES the elusive 2F14 protos that are the spb protos.

heres some info i have gathered over the years and many protos later. i have had all variants except the DP and C10

2F15 - 124g-126g, Counter Balanced, More spin, higher launch, similar to 1150GH Tour's. All the weight is in the butt,

2S14 - 136g-138g, Full flex stiffer in tip section than DG X100's, 2 flexes stiffer in the Butt section. proto of Super Peening Blues. MONSTER SHAFT

ORA - 127g-128g, Softer than 2S14's, quick high launch but flat trajectory. (Used by Paul Casey right now!) Tour version of Super Peening Orange with some added tech.

C10 - Very similar to X100's but up about 1x stiffer flex in both the tip and the butt. Weight similar to X100's.

[supo]

oh yes indeed.

u speak of mental gymnastics..,

thast the ultimate shaft set ur totally right.

i just cant .. wait a moment yes i can...

i can do that

ill start gaming my 4 iron agn

3-4 ora stiff yamaha 2006 tour (more off set MUCH easier clubs to hit. THE perfect cavity!)

5-6 ns ora stiff yamaha 2008 tour

7-8 2f15 x yamaha 2011

9-pw.. ora x . yamaha 2010

oh dear tal kabout bastardising 4 sets of irons and shafts!

[Spoon]

oh yes indeed.

u speak of mental gymnastics..,

thast the ultimate shaft set ur totally right.

i just cant .. wait a moment yes i can...

i can do that

ill start gaming my 4 iron agn

3-4 ora stiff yamaha 2006 tour (more off set MUCH easier clubs to hit. THE perfect cavity!)

5-6 ns ora stiff yamaha 2008 tour

7-8 2f15 x yamaha 2011

9-pw.. ora x . yamaha 2010

oh dear tal kabout bastardising 4 sets of irons and shafts!

you are forgetting the 2F14 thats the missing link in your combo.

think of it as the catalyst to the big bang! i kid you not that thing is a hell of a lot

smoother than the 2f15 which i found to be brittle feeling , almost dg like in feel.

now imagine the 2f14 to be the yeti of the nspro line, its got the exact

feel of the smooth buttery ORAs , smoother than the blues, punchier while maintaining

the lowish ball flight. you gotta have that.

[JMCMB]

You guys are killing me lol, ive been dying for a set of these protos lol, just can't seem to find em anywhere...

J.

[supo]

ok ok send em over!

[Spoon]

You guys are killing me lol, ive been dying for a set of these protos lol, just can't seem to find em anywhere...

J.

had 3 sets of the protos last year, had i known. even i cant find em now. il keep an eye out for you.

i built a set for my client last year 2f15 x flex. think he has them in his shaft bin. i will check

[supo]

mine pls!

[Spoon]

mine pls!

you want another set of 2f15x? you have these already:) thought u dint like em?

[dodo]

I just went over the PURE results from Pete's and the shaft are all most identical they never had seen this before. This is probably what the call Japanese perfection.

Edited October 13, 2011 by dodo

[Spoon]

I just went over the PURE results from Pete's and the shaft are all most identical they never had seen this before. This is probably what the call Japanese perfection.

good to know. dont get any better than this. attention to detail exemplified

[JMCMB]

Right now it's name your price for ANY set of Protos guys, Stiff or X, any model, doesn't matter....

J.

[supo]

Hahhahha dont worry ull have a st soon enough

[IshikawaFAN]

KBS c Taper is the answer to everyone who complained about the KBS tour being so high launch. No experience with M3, Orange proto or SP Blue but they sound like something in between nspro line and something like KBS tour. I don't recommend anyone the ns pro line unless they're girls. How you M3 / SP blue guys aren't using KBS c Taper R+/ S/ S+ or KBS tour makes no sense. Must be a ONLY USE what is made in japan mentality. KBS c Taper is a GREAT SHAFT!

[supo]

Oooh hold ur hirses there , chill winston!

sp blues are prett good if ur

a digger and or a sweeper and can get thru the ball well

from what the guys tell me abt the. C-Taprrs if u hit from high these are the worst shafts on the planet. No spin at all not much fun to be had there

i dont mind ns shafts and as for

girls......... Might be a bit strong, no?

Pretty sure im not

Edited December 24, 2011 by supo67

[Vegaman]

KBS c Taper is the answer to everyone who complained about the KBS tour being so high launch. No experience with M3, Orange proto or SP Blue but they sound like something in between nspro line and something like KBS tour. I don't recommend anyone the ns pro line unless they're girls. How you M3 / SP blue guys aren't using KBS c Taper R+/ S/ S+ or KBS tour makes no sense. Must be a ONLY USE what is made in japan mentality. KBS c Taper is a GREAT SHAFT!

So, you never tried SP blues but you think they are for girls? "No experience with" but still sure about how they play? Are you a psychic? I play the SP blues in Xstiff and they are by no means "girly", much lower launch and "manlier" than KBS tours, that I have also hit many times. I don't know what kind of girls you meet, but I somehow doubt they would enjoy using my clubs. And yes, C-tapers seem to be a good shaft.

Must be ONLY USE what is made in the good old USA?

On another note, when I had my clubs built in the UK with the SP blues he told me he will spine the shafts for me, but warned me the logos might be all over the place and I said no problem. Then they came back with the logos all down in almost the exact same place. He emailed me and said that he actually DID spine them.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Vegaman

[IshikawaFAN]

The fitter calling nippon crap was a bit harsh but I am sure he was referring to the consistency in performance. Like I said, I'm not familiar with m3 or sp blue but I do know of girls on the lpga/ futures tour using ns pro iron shafts 850-950, dg sl, px 5.0... If jap golf is all you follow, Ai Miyazato + Chie Arimura do use nippon steel. I should clarify the nippon brand is better suited for slower "swingers" of the ball where as KBS/ PX/ DG is for higher swing speed / hitters of the ball. I don't understand what you mean by "hit from high" supo67, over the top? Ns pro is a more forgiving shaft, I give it that(assuming there is NO WIND). I'm not trying to make enemies on here, use what suits your game but don't knock a better shaft because you can't hit it. It's like saying GI irons are better than blades. I find it funny how much credit you guys give your equipment tho... Let me know what you think of KBS tour / c Taper when you're a scratch golfer or at least a 5 handicap vegaman, keep practiSing. No offense to those 10+ out there who are enjoying KBS shafts!

[zwan]

The fitter calling nippon crap was a bit harsh but I am sure he was referring to the consistency in performance. Like I said, I'm not familiar with m3 or sp blue but I do know of girls on the lpga/ futures tour using ns pro iron shafts 850-950, dg sl, px 5.0... If jap golf is all you follow, Ai Miyazato + Chie Arimura do use nippon steel. I should clarify the nippon brand is better suited for slower "swingers" of the ball where as KBS/ PX/ DG is for higher swing speed / hitters of the ball. I don't understand what you mean by "hit from high" supo67, over the top? Ns pro is a more forgiving shaft, I give it that(assuming there is NO WIND). I'm not trying to make enemies on here, use what suits your game but don't knock a better shaft because you can't hit it. It's like saying GI irons are better than blades. I find it funny how much credit you guys give your equipment tho... Let me know what you think of KBS tour / c Taper when you're a scratch golfer or at least a 5 handicap vegaman, keep practiSing. No offense to those 10+ out there who are enjoying KBS shafts!

Well, IshikawaFan, you are trying hard to make enemies on here the way you write down on vegaman. I'm not an awful great golfer see my handicapindex but I respect the opinions of all other users here! Not like you do! So either you go with the flow and respect the TGS-members or... Try and find a place where your comments are more appreciated.

[Vegaman]

The fitter calling nippon crap was a bit harsh but I am sure he was referring to the consistency in performance. Like I said, I'm not familiar with m3 or sp blue but I do know of girls on the lpga/ futures tour using ns pro iron shafts 850-950, dg sl, px 5.0... If jap golf is all you follow, Ai Miyazato + Chie Arimura do use nippon steel. I should clarify the nippon brand is better suited for slower "swingers" of the ball where as KBS/ PX/ DG is for higher swing speed / hitters of the ball. I don't understand what you mean by "hit from high" supo67, over the top? Ns pro is a more forgiving shaft, I give it that(assuming there is NO WIND). I'm not trying to make enemies on here, use what suits your game but don't knock a better shaft because you can't hit it. It's like saying GI irons are better than blades. I find it funny how much credit you guys give your equipment tho... Let me know what you think of KBS tour / c Taper when you're a scratch golfer or at least a 5 handicap vegaman, keep practiSing. No offense to those 10+ out there who are enjoying KBS shafts!

I don't practise, I just play. So, if I happen to believe that the SP blues are better than the KBS tours after trying both I'm not entitled to that opinion because I'm not at least a 5 hcp? Maybe in your narrow world, but I made a choice as a consumer and unlike you I have actually tried the KBS tours AND the SPs..And I can for sure hit any shaft, the SP are heavier and stiffer then the KBS tours, and fly a lot lower but with a very smooth feel. So just because you are so narrowminded as to not being able to see that Nippon makes models you have never tried or even seen maybe, they are for ladies and slower swingers only? That's like saying since my neighbour drives an Audi A1 and I have never tried the R8 Audis are for people that enjoy small slow cars only.

So, what you are actually saying is that even though you have never tried the SP blues and other models you can say for certain that the C-tapers are a better shaft? That's delusional, you don't know what you are talking about, and that's a cold hard fact.