JBeam Bullet?

[+TourSpecGolfer]

12 hours ago, chiromikey said:

The Kamui Works Ray was the best feeling driver I've ever owned and I loved that it was built to MY EXACT specs (flat and open). Besides the shape, I wonder if this Kamui has anything else in common with the jBeam or if that's where the similarities end?

Kamui Works builds the heads to order with those specs.  Jbeam hand picks or adjusts by reeming the hosel or using a special sleeve.  

They are totally different materials,  heads etc..

[nobmontana]

24 minutes ago, coops1967 said:

Don't be bringing simple common sense to the argument..... ;-)

 

Perhaps all Japanese golfers are playing their irons 4 degree up or more from standard - maybe the Mizuno iron standard which i always heard was slightly flatter  than those westerners... ( I mean a 6ft Japanese man is going to have signigicantly shorter arms than a Western 6ft man? Or a 5ft 6in Japanese vs a 5ft6ib Westerner LOL.... what about the old chestnut that 'driver lie angle didn't mastter due to the low loft' . Now apparently some races have Trex arms ;-)    )

Being a 6ft tall Japanese,   I do not believe I have significantly shorter arms than my American counterparts! :) 

I think the upright lie on JDM driver is to compensate for the larger 460 heads typically having CGs away from the axis of rotation and thus,  naturally harder to return to square at impact.     What does that mean to the general golfers in Japan?   Pushes and Slices. 

They could certainly make clubs with a closed face or even put an offset to address this issue,  but I think they are choosing to make the lie upright instead since it does not affect how the club looks at address.    Offset drivers and closed face drivers probably do not sell well  they are just ugly to look at.      but guess what... when I am on the course here in the US,   I see so many players with USDM drivers who set up super closed face at address to compensate for their slices!!     Take your pick!   :)      

In Japan,  the word "Tsukamaru"  has caught on in Japanese golf club marketing,  which can translate to "Capture"  the ball at impact which they really mean to say "easier to hit straighter or draw at impact."  (i.e. anti-slice )     As we all know , most beginners suffer slicing the ball ,  and honestly with the very little play time they have in Japan,  the majority of players do not grow out of that problem.     Over the years , I think the market overall has been programmed to interpret  "Easier to draw" = "Forgiving club"

 

[chiromikey]

4 hours ago, TourSpecGolfer said:

Kamui Works builds the heads to order with those specs.  Jbeam hand picks or adjusts by reeming the hosel or using a special sleeve.  

They are totally different materials,  heads etc..

Can you find out what would be the most flat and open head they have in 9* (prior to reeming or sleeving)?

[Vegaman]

11 hours ago, coops1967 said:

Don't be bringing simple common sense to the argument..... ;-)

 

Perhaps all Japanese golfers are playing their irons 4 degree up or more from standard - maybe the Mizuno iron standard which i always heard was slightly flatter  than those westerners... ( I mean a 6ft Japanese man is going to have signigicantly shorter arms than a Western 6ft man? Or a 5ft 6in Japanese vs a 5ft6ib Westerner LOL.... what about the old chestnut that 'driver lie angle didn't mastter due to the low loft' . Now apparently some races have Trex arms ;-)    )

Lol, yeah it all seems so off, logic wise

[+TourSpecGolfer]

18 hours ago, chiromikey said:

Can you find out what would be the most flat and open head they have in 9* (prior to reeming or sleeving)?

Lie angle is 59* open is 1.25*

Reem or sleeve it and you can go another 3* either way.

[coops1967]

Mercy... just seen Epon's Dead or Alive driver is a ludicrous 62 degree lie angle.... more upright than a standard 4 iron.

 

I'll be picking up my reshafted clubs from Golfcraft tomorrow, so hope I remember to take a comparison pic for you all just for laughs....

 

The Epon Zero Kai is a lovely looking thing, by the way - but for a driver designed for the 'stronger' player at 435cc ( & presumably a non-slicer) it is sadly also at 60 deg lie... my trust Mizuno Craft 611 is Endo made and you can order it 1-1/2 deg flat from 58 to 56.5 if you like if you're looking for a good option...

I'm not too sure what Epon are up to either... first they cancel their dealer arrangement with Golfcraft Bangkok - sounds familiar to Tourspec I suppose ;-) - ( so i heard to open a shop of their own in Thaniya plaza)... and now it's back to 'sanity' with Golfcraft being their main Thailand dealer ( along with Grindworks but no longer Jbeam it seems... by the way the grindworks cb-1 looks to be forged from Epon 301 dies  http://en.grindworks.jp  )

[+TourSpecGolfer]

4 hours ago, coops1967 said:

Mercy... just seen Epon's Dead or Alive driver is a ludicrous 62 degree lie angle.... more upright than a standard 4 iron.

 

I'll be picking up my reshafted clubs from Golfcraft tomorrow, so hope I remember to take a comparison pic for you all just for laughs....

 

The Epon Zero Kai is a lovely looking thing, by the way - but for a driver designed for the 'stronger' player at 435cc ( & presumably a non-slicer) it is sadly also at 60 deg lie... my trust Mizuno Craft 611 is Endo made and you can order it 1-1/2 deg flat from 58 to 56.5 if you like if you're looking for a good option...

I'm not too sure what Epon are up to either... first they cancel their dealer arrangement with Golfcraft Bangkok - sounds familiar to Tourspec I suppose ;-) - ( so i heard to open a shop of their own in Thaniya plaza)... and now it's back to 'sanity' with Golfcraft being their main Thailand dealer ( along with Grindworks but no longer Jbeam it seems... by the way the grindworks cb-1 looks to be forged from Epon 301 dies  http://en.grindworks.jp  )

Lets try not to thread jack but to be laser.

1.  You can order most Yoro mizzy drivers flat still

2.  Epon is doing poorly.  Endo is not interested in growing their golf business aggressively.  PXG & The New Miura have taken a lot of their juice.  Epon's soul has been missing for a decade now.   Fu Shen & OTA the worlds two biggest factories in China are very competitive and aggressive.

3.  TSG vs GolfCraft was the issue and it was purely about ego and feelings not sound business decisions. When I realized I was out I gave Epon a last bit of advice and It went a little something like this:  " you guys are manufacturing and shipping it and have english speaking staff with time on their hands" cut out unnecessary regionals and sell directly to the shop.   Judging by the way things are now they followed it... kinda. 

4.  I do not believe Epon has made an original mold for their products.  A mold for the heavy press cost  $1.2 million.   Factories do not produce their own they let their customers pay for it then use / adjust / or duplicate after the product is phased out or the co goes belly up.  Sometimes the mold will break so they repair it.  I know factories that own many molds but none producing their own like big golf OEMs often do.  It's simple math.  how many sets you gotta sell to cover $1.2 million mold let alone the cost to produce thousands of sets of heads?   Also if you really know shapes you can look at say the P3 or AF-Tour and  tell these shapes look dated.  Compare it to the shape of a SEVEN, Titleist, Taylormade or Srixon players CB.  Two different eras in shape.  So even if they are in the business of losing money and buying new molds (they are not) would they really spend that money on dated shapes?  

Ok lets stop there on this...lol

 

[coops1967]

By the way - I think the Seven idea of a 'blank' oversize/overweight 'blade' head which is then milled down to final size and weight is an excellent idea - brilliant for smaller product runs, and allows you to produce different head shapes etc from the one blank, rather than investing in multiple forge dies for each forging step for each head for each model... opens up possibilities of custom milled head for offset and grind.

 

Got my reshafted clubs back today.... here's the 301 4 iron vs the Dead or alive 62deg lie angle driver  

 

[+TourSpecGolfer]

On 8/29/2017 at 9:29 AM, nobmontana said:

Being a 6ft tall Japanese,   I do not believe I have significantly shorter arms than my American counterparts! :) 

I think the upright lie on JDM driver is to compensate for the larger 460 heads typically having CGs away from the axis of rotation and thus,  naturally harder to return to square at impact.     What does that mean to the general golfers in Japan?   Pushes and Slices. 

They could certainly make clubs with a closed face or even put an offset to address this issue,  but I think they are choosing to make the lie upright instead since it does not affect how the club looks at address.    Offset drivers and closed face drivers probably do not sell well  they are just ugly to look at.      but guess what... when I am on the course here in the US,   I see so many players with USDM drivers who set up super closed face at address to compensate for their slices!!     Take your pick!   :)      

In Japan,  the word "Tsukamaru"  has caught on in Japanese golf club marketing,  which can translate to "Capture"  the ball at impact which they really mean to say "easier to hit straighter or draw at impact."  (i.e. anti-slice )     As we all know , most beginners suffer slicing the ball ,  and honestly with the very little play time they have in Japan,  the majority of players do not grow out of that problem.     Over the years , I think the market overall has been programmed to interpret  "Easier to draw" = "Forgiving club"

 

This I agree.  

 

[chiromikey]

Any more info or player reviews on this?

[nobmontana]

Looks like you'll have to be the guinea pig on this one, Mikey!  :)   

[chiromikey]

3 hours ago, nobmontana said:

Looks like you'll have to be the guinea pig on this one, Mikey!  :)   

Are you saying that I’m going to have to “bite the bullet”? 

[FairwayFred]

Anyone ever end up hitting this beast? 

 

Any pics at address? 

[supo]

Nobs cud not agree more.....

[RLL33]

Okay, I hit (bit) the Bullet over the weekend. Took it to the range with my JBeam Black and my current fave, the AF153. 

Have to say, "Beast" is a good description. This thing feels like a big hunk of raw meat. Incredibly powerful pop off the face accompanied by a deep sound. If you prefer the kind of slow "thwack" sound in a driver, this thing is more like "SOCK!" I referred to the Ryoma F2 fwys over the summer as producing a gunshot sound, but if that was a gunshot, this is more of a shotgun. I mean it, it almost shocked me the first couple of times I hit it, and several people came by my stall to see what the sound was over there. It's not the kind of metallic sound that has bothered some people with JBeam drivers. I'm serious, it sounds like if you had The Rock take a side of beef and slap it on hard oak. The ball seems to stay on the face a very long time, and the rumble sound comes a fraction after you feel it, as opposed to metallic sounding drivers that seem to "clink" almost before they make contact with the ball.

Comparison wise, it feels just a bit bulkier than the the Black. It looks slightly bigger at address, although nothing like some (460) heads that look like parking meter heads to me on the end of a fishing rod. This thing means business and it looks like it. It was every bit as long as the Black ( I had the same shaft on both...), and as advertised, it was easier for me to produce a draw with the Bullet. Interestingly though, I checked the hit mark on the face after each drive, and it was the ones center and in that produced the most draw. The thing that was cool was a hit on or nearer the high toe felt as solid as a hit in the center, and the flight on those was a nice power fade. The sound didn't change that much either with the hits out on that big toe. Usually if I hit a ball out near the toe of a driver, I get that nasty thin feeling vibration and a higher pitched sound that screams mis-hit. The Bullet did not make that sound. It was more like the t-bone hit the oak than the center cut, and the flight sort of winked back a haughty "no big deal" kind of shrug at me that I have to say was cool.

I think it may be for the golfer with a bigger swing speed than me. You guys that use heavier x-flex shafts are probably more the candidate to make this thing come alive than me. (As I've mentioned, my main project over the past year or so was to just hit more fairways at a decent length than to have one great crusher drive somewhere in a round that I could drink to later... Thus, the AF153 has stuck in the bag lately.) 

But man, I can picture a lot of guys liking this baby, and I get that it would appeal to the long drive crowd. It feels designed for that, IMO, including the intimidation factor that the appearance throws off. It's a beauty, like the Black, but brawnier. 

Basically if you're a bomber, or looking to imitate one, bombs away with this thing.

Here are a couple of comparison pics with the Black. (The Bullet is on the right.)

Edited January 22, 2018 by RLL33

[nobmontana]

Richard,  Thanks for the thorough and exciting review of the Bullet!  

Sounds very intriguing.    I'll be in the market for another head soon after I get my AAA 2015 shaft.   

Perhaps I need to look at this head as a potential candidate.    Right now I am thinking about getting a G400 Max and build the ultimate fairway finder ...   but my current gamer MA01D+R / 7D combo already finds the fairway the majority of the time.   So perhaps I should go for something more exotic and out of the ordinary for my gamer number 2. :)   

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by nobmontana

[RLL33]

Thanks, Nob, I don't think you'd be disappointed. And I'd like to hear a 6-footer destroy the silliness about arm length, etc, earlier in the thread...   (That ain't me, babe.)  <g>

Gonna put up a couple of comparison pics with the Black, too, shortly.

[RLL33]

Pics are up. If the Black is a Boxter, the Bullet is a 911 turbo with a big nasty spoiler.

[nobmontana]

That Bullet shape from atop looks real nice!!  

A rounder pear like.

How’s the trajectory compared to the 153? 

[bngolfer]

And after you’ve had some fun with it Nobs, I’d be happy to give it a go ?

Edited January 23, 2018 by bngolfer

[RLL33]

10 hours ago, nobmontana said:

That Bullet shape from atop looks real nice!!  

A rounder pear like.

How’s the trajectory compared to the 153? 

Yes, at address, that's the look, kind of like the Black with a cockpit bulge on the roof. <g>

Trajectory is a missile like boring through air wherever you point it. But I'd say it's probably on the low side. I say "probably" because after a lot of experimentation, I've come to combining higher loft heads with low flight shafts. Seems to give me more control. I got the 11* Bullet and put my howitzer 7D shaft in it, and unless I tee it up extra high, I get straight line drives. The 153, by comparison, is a smooth mid-flight traj that tends to do an auto-pilot match of my visual of a gradual, comfortable take off (and landing...).  My guess is I'll take the Bullet out if/when I feel like it's a day to press G's and do barrel rolls. For business though, it'll still be the 153.

[nobmontana]

Thanks for the info.   and your 153 is a 10.5 or 9.5?  

 

 

[RLL33]

21 minutes ago, nobmontana said:

Thanks for the info.   and your 153 is a 10.5 or 9.5?  

 

 

10.5 

[chiromikey]

Thank you Rich for getting a review up. I can’t believe it took this long for someone to hit it! I’m liking this club on paper but I fight the left when I miss. Would I need to worry about that more so with this head than my 435?

[RLL33]

I really don't think so, Mike. I've hit it a couple more times, and it just pushes out straight line drives even though my normal trajectory is a baby draw. Also I ordered my club face 0.5* closed... so that makes the straight liners for me even more remarkable. As mentioned, it's a meaty club that I think might really appeal to guys like you who I think prefer a heavier feel than I do. 

PS.  I'm surprised, too, that more haven't tried it. It's a frickin' beast!