Benock Questions Thread

[+TourSpecGolfer]

It's a tuff brand to lay out so that everyone understands how they differ from other putter companies.

When I say the best I mean it.  Everyone else makes their putters the same way.  They hold the head in multiple areas and always leave the face for last.  They have to load and re-load their products into different machines to do various angles.  They have to hand polish every edge,  they are unable to make precision necks so they crank and bend and torch them, There is no perfection and no one is doing the good stuff like benock.  Not even close.  

With all of PXG's or Taylormade or Callaway's money they could still not equal how well Okuda-san makes his putters.  He creates technologies and invented unibloc,  he produced high end censor molds for cell phones.  He can produce anything to 1/100,000ths of a gram.  Nobody in the CNC world can calculate to this intensity.   It gets crazy though by manufacturing to 1/100,000ths of a gram he can make all types of putter shapes that have the same feel and performance for a player despite being completely different designs.

No one on the PGA Tour has anything like this.  Not TW, Not Speith,  none of them.  No Scotty can't do this either.  This is true maniac stuff.

1 chuck means 1 putter held in 1 spot only 1 time.  this is big.  whoever you think rules the putter world or makes the best can't do this.

While everyone is using GSS for hype marketing or even fake layered Damascus you have benock here offering JSS - 3136L which has a lower carbon content,  higher phosphorus,  higher Mn,  higher Mo and it's austenite steel heat treated.  From the very best suppliers in Japan.  

Then there is the fact he has 4 full time CAD professionals who can pump out 8 unique putter designs per DAY!  Keep in mind that the majority of brands create fewer than 20 a year.  

He has five 5-Axis machines from DMG Mori,  Scotty just got their first and use it on the 009.M but still not to Benock's capability because he goes to the extreme implementing German controllers and Italian software.  Then one of the biggest deals is Benocks relationship with NS Tool.   NSTool,  man where to start.  Their tools and support produce Sony, Canon, Nikon's best lenses and products.  The finest swiss watches are made using their tools since the 1950's.  The list goes on and on of world class products being made with NSTool.

So ima shut up now and just start posting pics and answering questions in this thread.

 

[+TourSpecGolfer]

I forgot to mention 

1.  You can choose from 37 designs.

2. You can change these designs in any way you want.

3. Or you can create your own design from scratch

4. You can create your own options

5. He can do 3D effects no one else can

6.  He has so many capabilities its tuff to understand what can be done.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Benock owns their own factory, Okuda-san can work every machine and designs using cad faster and better than anyone I have seen.  It's all Okuda-san's money with no outside investment.   Truly state of the art.

How this neck below?  notice the sole is still attached to metal while the head looks this good?  Not done anywhere else.

Again,  Below 1 chuck.  meaning its the only contact point being held while all that milling is done to bring the putter to where it is in these photos.  Anyone who makes putters via CNC looking at this is blown away.  

Shadow milling does not change roll.  He can do quad shadow milling and it does not change roll at all.  1 x shadow is like the image below.  2 x shadow is if you turn the angle it says a different word.  3 x is 3 different words each different from different angle and finally 4.  You can have your putter talk to you and it does not effect roll.

On that note,  roll.  Swirl milling causes side spin,  horizontal milling does not. But when the milling itself is smaller than the balls dimple it does what horizontal does. 

Horizontal does have an issue of wear,  over time brands with horizontal milling find their putters faces wear to be uneven.

These are the most expensive tools.  They are the smallest.  NSTOOL.

In today's putter industry this is all considered alien technology.

 

[604_skyline]

Chris,

can you talk about the different face options, I have seen various milling options on the face, can you shed some light on the differences?

secondly, can you talk about the difference in the "anser" style head shapes; chirico, anila, andra,easpade type B

finally you mentioned the 009M (masterful above) would it be possible to get the original 009 head shape, which is quite a bit different from the 009M, which scotty will only make now, you can not get an original 009, which many of the tour cameron freaks prefer.

anyway i will send you an email, as i would like to order one sooner rather than later...leaning towards either a chirico or anila....could they do a chirico but with a tri sole like the anila?

this is an anila, correct?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BXkSsCeDbNk/?taken-by=benockputter

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by 604_skyline

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Stick with the one in the photos for sure.  not only is it softer but I've seen it on camera produce the same role as horizontal milled putters.  By the way that brand evenroll tested the same as other horizontal milled putters as far as dispersion goes.  It only beat out the swirl milled faces and based on the way people were talking about it I was expecting it to perform best and not equal.  The bottom line is horizontal milling or smaller than the balls dimple type milling produces the best roll,  while swirl produces side spin but sometimes players like that sidespin as this is evident on tour.

You can also make your own type as long as there is no patent on it.  Not free of course.

You would have to send us a 009M and we can make that shape the same or even improve it.

#1 I love Chirico!  But I love Patti also.  Both Okuda-san and I agree that is his greatest anser design.  
 

[chiromikey]

Can you describe the fitting process? I prefer older blade putters like the Zen and wouldn’t give it up even if one of the new bricks on a stick made more putts for me. Can Benock fitting still improve my putting if I’m stubborn about what I want?

[+TourSpecGolfer]

The fitting would reveal so many things other fittings could not.  Benock fittings can only be done by Okuda-san and Tozono-san. 

But I think the best write up is - http://blog.tourspecgolf.com/benock-putter-fitting-experience/

You have Kyoto HQ & Factory or the Tokyo fitting center and both are impressive.  They also have events at top-notch department stores in Tokyo and other cities.  No one else sells his putters other than the brand and tsg.  This guy gets it.  Can do it all by himself yet has the most impressive putter machine factory in the world.   It's not a numbers fitting it's visual, skill, their intellect AND numbers.  These guys are experts but unfortunately do not speak a lick of English.  

 

[chiromikey]

21 hours ago, TourSpecGolfer said:

The fitting would reveal so many things other fittings could not.  Benock fittings can only be done by Okuda-san and Tozono-san. 

But I think the best write up is - http://blog.tourspecgolf.com/benock-putter-fitting-experience/

You have Kyoto HQ & Factory or the Tokyo fitting center and both are impressive.  They also have events at top-notch department stores in Tokyo and other cities.  No one else sells his putters other than the brand and tsg.  This guy gets it.  Can do it all by himself yet has the most impressive putter machine factory in the world.   It's not a numbers fitting it's visual, skill, their intellect AND numbers.  These guys are experts but unfortunately do not speak a lick of English.  

 

I’d like to have you set up a fitting during my next trip like we did with Seven Dreamers.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

It's best in Kyoto with Okuda-san himself because you can tour the factory.

Let me know and I can help.

[bngolfer]

 

I bought a used Benock Pantaleone in the bst a while ago. Brought it out to the puttingreen yesterday along-side my Gold’s PS#2 that I love and have gamed for 10 years almost. Now, the shape of the Pantaleone is not right for me, it is an inch or so too short and it is too flat. I still could not stop rolling putts with it. The touch/feel is completely addictive and just awesome! I like the thin topline/face as it tends to give me feedback the way I like it. Now I would love to get my hands on a ps#2 style Benock.  

[supo]

I had an extensive golds gss and benock rollathon few weeks back.

totally different feel

my input is if ulike  a short punchy stroke , a short stubby style  bumt, then the benock is the winner, but if u are a smoother flowing pendulum  kinda guy that goes deep thru the follow,thru the gss deep milled golds was more consistent.

imfkkd bec i can do both equally well or bad.. and have no idea which i prefer, hence why i have 75putters of all differing shapes sizes weights  it matters not  1 iota to me these days.

 

gss golds,feels,better off the face . benock  gives  miles more feedback.

Take ur pick they are both insanely,good putterers. And  icant wont split the diff nad i have a " few " of each

 

[marmaduk]

I thought my 11 putters was an extensive collection. 

[bngolfer]

4 hours ago, marmaduk said:

I thought my 11 putters was an extensive collection. 

I love it when that happens. We still have something to work for ?. And there is that wife part too: ”11 is not a lot at all, Stu has 75”.

[supo]

thats left, and have culled plenty...

its a badbad sickness.

[bngolfer]

No cure either. "Everyday I'm shuffling..."

[+TourSpecGolfer]

On 6/4/2018 at 5:59 AM, supo said:

I had an extensive golds gss and benock rollathon few weeks back.

totally different feel

my input is if ulike  a short punchy stroke , a short stubby style  bumt, then the benock is the winner, but if u are a smoother flowing pendulum  kinda guy that goes deep thru the follow,thru the gss deep milled golds was more consistent.

imfkkd bec i can do both equally well or bad.. and have no idea which i prefer, hence why i have 75putters of all differing shapes sizes weights  it matters not  1 iota to me these days.

 

gss golds,feels,better off the face . benock  gives  miles more feedback.

Take ur pick they are both insanely,good putterers. And  icant wont split the diff nad i have a " few " of each

 

Golds factory has never used GSS to make a putter.  They are willing to stamp whatever you want on a putter including a material it is not.  This is not ok in my book.

GSS is identical to standard Japan grade SUS303 though if that makes people feel better.  That still does not make it German.

Being real I can't even compare a Gold's to a benock.   

 

[bngolfer]

Well, from a tech prespective I’m sure you are right. Benock is probably a good ways ahead of Gold’s/Scotty Xerox/everyone else and their momas.

To me though, the mods Gold’s does and the finish on the putters I have and have had - phenomenal. There is no point in comparing them to say one is inferior to the other in my book. They are different, have different raison d’^etre, and provide a different product/service than the other. Apples/pears? Rolls/Koenigsegg? 

I believe that the carbon Kitada (I think?) Gold’s Private Stock #2 is every bit as good as any other putter I’ve laid my hands (and eyes) on, including the Benock I have. Also, carbon steel feels better than GSS/SUS303 to me all day long.

[nobmontana]

I have one Gold’s and one Benock both made of JIS303.  Gold’s has added Tungsten weights and shafted with a Dogatti (I.e.  modified ).  And my Benock is custom milled to my specs and being used as is, straight out of the factory.  

Both are awesome feeling putters but ironically, neither get gamed on my Saturday Men’s club events...  I have an Odyssey O-Works 7S  for that.   It’s just an easier putter for me when the pressure is on.   

 

 

 

 

 

[supo]

Well, what I like to play  with friends and what I like to game in comp are seldom the same. if its a sat.sun comp sure ill take anything out bec I like to change it up   but the ones I have had most success with  but benched are the axis eagle........... yup AND get this , anyone remember Jacks  1986 august  mcgreggor putter???

yup ,well I have one of those gigantic axes as well  and  I play  VERY well with it, too well actually,  its so frugly tho,  I had it refurbed in melk  by  kari lajossi  but there was fk all to do to it  so he just I dunno  maynbe sanded it  it flat  no grooves at all,  its hideous but  in big games  I/e  in club champs here I take that out a lot , my lags with it are insanely consistent.

 I think my best feeling putter is a "non milled" sus303 shingo45  guage from golds. I prefer  the slightest of milling u cant even say its milled.  

horses for course but no way can I say one of these top enders  is miles  better than the others.  I can  tho, easlly say my nike POS , albeit  I putt well with it , is horrible poor quality, the paint chips, the  material is god knows what ,  is scrathes just by looking at it , it really is a cheap ass POS , but I hit em well..  and I HATE that I do.

the ones I like ot take out the most are the golds mods ,  yamadas/Hiro mats guage and  the benocks , there is something quite nice about taking a one off  out and putting it thru its paces.

 

 

ill still take the jack spesshy out tho for a big game of Nassau!

 

 

 

[bngolfer]

I used to game the huge Jack aluminum MacGregor ? On 17 after a 3-putt I tossed the ball up and gave it a good whack. The clubhead must have flown 60 yards... nonetheless it was a bad ass putter.

[supo]

ha. been there , done that ( many many times) ,, not such a good idea with a driver.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

On 6/5/2018 at 8:25 AM, bngolfer said:

Well, from a tech prespective I’m sure you are right. Benock is probably a good ways ahead of Gold’s/Scotty Xerox/everyone else and their momas.

To me though, the mods Gold’s does and the finish on the putters I have and have had - phenomenal. There is no point in comparing them to say one is inferior to the other in my book. They are different, have different raison d’^etre, and provide a different product/service than the other. Apples/pears? Rolls/Koenigsegg? 

I believe that the carbon Kitada (I think?) Gold’s Private Stock #2 is every bit as good as any other putter I’ve laid my hands (and eyes) on, including the Benock I have. Also, carbon steel feels better than GSS/SUS303 to me all day long.

Please support TSG in helping the spread of misinformation on the web about Japanese golf clubs.

We are all simply placing an order with the same finishing factory:  TSG Club Works,  Gold's,  Miura, Itobori and a dozen or more brands all do the same.  So I want to give credit to those who are actually doing the finishing work.  Just as I would like to give credit to engineers, factories, and designers over brand names.

I constantly compare brands,  materials, tech, manufacturing... It is very useful because the majority of my customers are looking for the best or better and comparing clubs and want to know how they square off against each other.  Those are the types of questions we receive most.  Golf clubs are just products.  It's ok to judge them subjectively.

Gold's blanks have not been made by Kitada for many years.  I know Kitada well he has made the Seven SM490A series putters and still does the CNC back face and logos for the Seven MB before Shinagawa hand grinds it.  While Kitada-san is my good friend his work does not come close to Benock.  Kitada uses mostly sus303,  then carbon.  The material is not the only reason carbon feels softer.  You are also feeling a finish on top of the carbon,  you are feeling the loft, cg and the face milling.   The general rule of thumb is stainless is firm and carbon is soft but it goes way beyond that as you can make carbon feel firmer and stainless feel softer.

I have always said that Gold's Factory does not make putters.  They modify other brand's putters.  They do exquisite work.  Remember I introduced gold's first post Gauge JPN. We have shared staff with them and still employ the person who did their paint fill,  polishing, and assembly for many years ( TSG Club Works ).  Gold's best work is making weights,  making holes,  sight lines,  hand controlled milling, etc..  I repeat they are not a putter head manufacturer and that is precicely why I said I could not compare them to Benock.  Nobody can and we can discuss that in detail if you have interest.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

On 6/5/2018 at 5:30 PM, supo said:

Well, what I like to play  with friends and what I like to game in comp are seldom the same. if its a sat.sun comp sure ill take anything out bec I like to change it up   but the ones I have had most success with  but benched are the axis eagle........... yup AND get this , anyone remember Jacks  1986 august  mcgreggor putter???

yup ,well I have one of those gigantic axes as well  and  I play  VERY well with it, too well actually,  its so frugly tho,  I had it refurbed in melk  by  kari lajossi  but there was fk all to do to it  so he just I dunno  maynbe sanded it  it flat  no grooves at all,  its hideous but  in big games  I/e  in club champs here I take that out a lot , my lags with it are insanely consistent.

 I think my best feeling putter is a "non milled" sus303 shingo45  guage from golds. I prefer  the slightest of milling u cant even say its milled.  

horses for course but no way can I say one of these top enders  is miles  better than the others.  I can  tho, easlly say my nike POS , albeit  I putt well with it , is horrible poor quality, the paint chips, the  material is god knows what ,  is scrathes just by looking at it , it really is a cheap ass POS , but I hit em well..  and I HATE that I do.

the ones I like ot take out the most are the golds mods ,  yamadas/Hiro mats guage and  the benocks , there is something quite nice about taking a one off  out and putting it thru its paces.

 

 

ill still take the jack spesshy out tho for a big game of Nassau!

 

 

 

45

I know your Shingo well, it is a classic!  George Takei ran Gauge JPN from his Shinjuku office which I was youngin always hanging out at.  First brand to really give TSG a chance.  That head is made by Kitada then engravings done by Sasaya's father.  

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Just a few options.  I really enjoy the bottom right only problem is I find sand or dirt gets stuck in between those cracks faster.

Some of these produce more side spin than others.  

[+TourSpecGolfer]

For the average player they would look at this pic and think... nice.

But for someone who knows how to engineer putters, they would look at this pic and be amazed.  They can throw millions of dollars at trying to duplicate it and not be able to.  

A few things to help you see.

1 - The only chuck is on its sole.  look at other makers photos.  They are not 1 chuck and they are held by the face not sole and loaded into multiple machines.   It's actually a very big deal.  It's almost like 2D vs 3D.

2 - see the neck and the edges of everything.  smooth perfect curves yet no hand polishing is done at all.  no one else can do it to this perfection.  In fact for slant, curved and unique necks other companies have to cut the neck off and bend and crank.  

3 - Notice how its milled and unpolished in the first pic and there is no pitting in the steel especially on the flat surfaces.  Trust that with most steels worldwide at this stage you find flaws that need to be polished or hidden by a finish.  Materials are a priority at Benock. There is a reason other makers do not post macro close images at this stage in the making.