Most overrated PGA proffessional current/all time?

[scratchman]

I have bit my tongue for some time in an effort not to offend our members north of the border but the time has come. Mike Weir has done nothing since his Masters victory but let it go to his head. Not only is he overrated as a player but more he is overrated as a person. I rooted for him at the Masters and thought he was a nice guy until I saw him at the US Open last year in Chicago in a tuesday practice round. He had just come off the first green after taking some photos with his playing partners (obviously not grinding). There stood a well positioned youngster who politely asked for an autograph from "Mr. Weir". Very bluntly he answered no and stormed past the kid. It did not mean too much at the time because I hadn't seen anyone else at that point. However as the day progressed all and I mean all of the elite players took time to sign autographs that day. Guys like: Els, PM, DLIII, DD, VJ, Clarke, Sergio, Howell, Price, etc. They all took the time to sign at least 5-10 autographs between tees. Mike Weir was the only player I saw all day refuse to sign something and it was for a kid. Nice! And the manner in which he did it was horrible. He gets my most overrated person in golf award!

[radd]

I am surprised no one mentioned David Duval(sp?). He went from #1 to not being able to break 80 that often, and only in a few short years. To me, that's over-rated!

d

to my knowledge duval had and i think still has an inner ear problem to do with balance.however he did shoot a 59 igota respect him 4 that.but i suppose he is a bit over rate although when he shot a 59 and a few years afterhe wasnt over rated.

[jeffy]

leftyglfr wrote:

I believe he's won over 80 professional tourneys worldwide. He was dominant everywhere and still holds the record for longest time as the worlds #1 player.

If you go by international wins, then I suppose the best of all time, with over 100, would be Roberto DeVincenzo! Of Greg's 68 international victories, 31 were in Australia. I'm sorry, but BFD!

Along the same lines, one could argue that Greg's #1 ranking is evidence of a long debated "flaw" in the world rankings alledgedly favoring international wins.

In my view, Ray Floyd (4 majors, 22 tour events), Nick Faldo (6 majors), Julius Boros (2 US Opens, 1 PGA, 18 tour events) have superior records; and players like Hale Irwin (two US Opens, 20 tour events), Hubert Green (US and PGA, 20 tour wins), Nick Price (2 majors, 18 tour events), Ben Crenshaw (2 majors, 19 tour wins) have comparable records but none of the hype.

As far as which collapse was worse, the Palmer collapse was shocking, but: he did manage to tie Casper (Norman lost by 5 shots); his back nine score of 4 over 39 was unnecessary but Casper had to shoot a 3 under 32 on a very tough US Open course to catch him; rather than make blunder after mental blunder like Norman did from the beginning of the round, Arnie foolishly started focusing on the Open scoring record on the back nine only after the title seemed secure. Intelligent men can differ on this one, but Olympic, although an unbelievable collapse, was not the total meltdown of the '96 Masters, IMNSHO.

As far as Seve goes, I always felt that he and many others thought that he was on par with the true greats, which perhaps he was for a time. But longevity also counts for something and he won his last major in 1991 at the age of 34 and really didn't contend much after that. His five majors trail Faldo (6), Trevino (6), and Watson (8), equals Nelson (who quit the tour when he was 33), and leads Floyd by just one. To me, that doesn't put him in the demi-god status he once enjoyed and still claims (see his interview in either Golf or GD within the past year).

In any case, this thread was a great idea and I thank primo for starting it.

Jeff

[rsvman]

Scratchman:

I gotta stand up and defend Mike Weir. That poor kid that wanted an autograph obviously caught him on a bad day. He is a phenomenally nice gentlemen. I know this personally because he is a member at my father's home course and my father has played golf with him many times.

I would certainly hate to have my entire personality judged by any particular 15-second segment of my life, as I'm sure you would.

[KascoPro]

Shingo at number 53 in the world. Overrated

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Shingo at number 53 in the world.  Overrated

No way is Shingo Overrated he is #2 in JPGA and Currently #1 for 2004 with 3 victories so far and 1 major while he completely switched all his clubs. In the last 5 years he has been #1 in the ranking and money list twice and #2, 3 times. How is that overrated?

" Now a fifteen time winner on the Japan Golf Tour "

[johnnypro]

leftyglfr wrote:

I believe he's won over 80 professional tourneys worldwide.  He was dominant everywhere and still holds the record for longest time as the worlds #1 player.  

If you go by international wins, then I suppose the best of all time, with over 100, would be Roberto DeVincenzo! Of Greg's 68 international victories, 31 were in Australia. I'm sorry, but BFD!

Along the same lines, one could argue that Greg's #1 ranking is evidence of a long debated "flaw" in the world rankings alledgedly favoring international wins.

In my view, Ray Floyd (4 majors, 22 tour events), Nick Faldo (6 majors), Julius Boros (2 US Opens, 1 PGA, 18 tour events) have superior records; and players like Hale Irwin (two US Opens, 20 tour events), Hubert Green (US and PGA, 20 tour wins), Nick Price (2 majors, 18 tour events), Ben Crenshaw (2 majors, 19 tour wins) have comparable records but none of the hype.  

As far as which collapse was worse, the Palmer collapse was shocking, but: he did manage to tie Casper (Norman lost by 5 shots); his back nine score of 4 over 39 was unnecessary but Casper had to shoot a 3 under 32 on a very tough US Open course to catch him; rather than make blunder after mental blunder like Norman did from the beginning of the round, Arnie foolishly started focusing on the Open scoring record on the back nine only after the title seemed secure. Intelligent men can differ on this one, but Olympic, although an unbelievable collapse, was not the total meltdown of the '96 Masters, IMNSHO.

As far as Seve goes, I always felt that he and many others thought that he was on par with the true greats, which perhaps he was for a time. But longevity also counts for something and he won his last major in 1991 at the age of 34 and really didn't contend much after that. His five majors trail Faldo (6), Trevino (6), and Watson (8), equals Nelson (who quit the tour when he was 33), and leads Floyd by just one. To me, that doesn't put him in the demi-god status he once enjoyed and still claims (see his interview in either Golf or GD within the past year).

In any case, this thread was a great idea and I thank primo for starting it.

Jeff

True, Norman made mistakes all day but, still, leading by 5 with 4 to go in a major is the all time gag. Plus, Arnie gagged again the next day - he led the playoff after 9 holes!!!! All he had to do was hit 1-iron off 16 on Sunday and he probably would have won, but NO, the Great Man had to hit the big stick. Serves him right!

[KascoPro]

Shingo at number 53 in the world.  Overrated

No way is Shingo Overrated he is #2 in JPGA and Currently #1 for 2004 with 3 victories so far and 1 major while he completely switched all his clubs. In the last 5 years he has been #1 in the ranking and money list twice and #2, 3 times. How is that overrated?

" Now a fifteen time winner on the Japan Golf Tour "

Don't get me wrong I am a Shingo fan. He had one decent PGA. Other than that he has done very little world wide. In my opinion the JPGA is 4th ranked tour in the world. He has done well,but who has he beat?

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Shingo at number 53 in the world.  Overrated

No way is Shingo Overrated he is #2 in JPGA and Currently #1 for 2004 with 3 victories so far and 1 major while he completely switched all his clubs. In the last 5 years he has been #1 in the ranking and money list twice and #2, 3 times. How is that overrated?

" Now a fifteen time winner on the Japan Golf Tour "

Don't get me wrong I am a Shingo fan. He had one decent PGA. Other than that he has done very little world wide. In my opinion the JPGA is 4th ranked tour in the world. He has done well,but who has he beat?

Yes everyone has their own opinion, and Japan does seem like #3 - #4 in world Tours. I just watch him win so much and get so little credit for it I kinda think he deserves more. Maybe its the Cowboy hat that makes him noticed but most U.S golfers have no clue who Shingo Katayama is. his name is catchy too.

[michaelt]

I have to say that Norman's game was not over-rated, note the past tense. He dominated golf for nearly a decade and continues to do well in business - how many pros havbe made the transition as successfully as Norman.

Some of the shot's I've seen him pull off defy belief, such as a 300 yard drive with a slight draw a long the curvature of trees or a 3 wood landing just over a bunker with the pin just past he buncker - you get the drift.

[ErnieBells]

Charles Howell III and alot of others just breaking in.These guys win once and the Media builds them up to be the next BIG Thing!!!!

[an909]

This may require a trip in the "Way-Back" machine, but what about Hal Sutton. He turned pro in 1981 and was supposed to be the next Nicklaus, following in the wake of Weiskopf and Miller. Now, he's had a decent career with 14 Tour wins and the PGA Championship, but he's no world-beater. Talk about unfulfilled promise, Sutton exemplifies that sentiment.

I reserve this type of criticism for players near the end of their career. The book is still open on players like Justin Leonard and some of the "Young Guns" on the PGA Tour right now, so it is unfair to assess there careers yet.

[an909]

I've noticed the posts countering the claim that Shingo is overrated. My only response is that Jumbo Ozaki was to best golfer on the Japanese Tour, but that never translated to the world stage. Shigeki Maruyama was one of the best players Japan ever produced, and he has yet to bring home any hardware in a significant world class event.

Whether it is fair, or not, players are judged by the way they can dominate on a world stage. That is why the best players are leaving their home tours to ply their trade on the PGA Tour.

Until Shingo becomes a real force in major events, plenty of folks will only know him because he wears the cowboy hat.

[ethan]

To even play on the professional tours is an incredible accomplishment that shows amazing skill and dedication. These guys just go out and play. While people are talking crap about them, they are out there doing their thing everyday.

[Grosse-Gurke]

Seems like some people are confusing the issue. Over rated means you are ranked higher than you should be or looked at as a better golfer than you are, i.e. being favored to win an event when you shouldnt be favored. You cant look back at a persons carrier ad say they were over rated unless you look at how they were viewed at the time and did they have the game and victories to be viewed as such. Not living up to your potential is a totally different subject. Duval is a perfect example, when he was #1, he should have been #1....that is not being over rated. He may not have lived up to his potential after that, but that is not the topic.

I also think saying Palmer carrier is over rated is a joke. His game may have been ugly but any player in the game today with the exception of Tiger would take his record and major victories today and run.

[shoe295]

I've noticed the posts countering the claim that Shingo is overrated.  My only response is that Jumbo Ozaki was to best golfer on the Japanese Tour, but that never translated to the world stage.  Shigeki Maruyama was one of the best players Japan ever produced, and he has yet to bring home any hardware in a significant world class event.  

Whether it is fair, or not, players are judged by the way they can dominate on a world stage.  That is why the best players are leaving their home tours to ply their trade on the PGA Tour.

Until Shingo becomes a real force in major events, plenty of folks will only know him because he wears the cowboy hat.

So the Greater Milwaukee Open doesn't count..us Wisconsinites shall observe several minutes of stunned silence.. :lol:

[TMMike]

How anyone could declare that Arnold Palmer was and is over-rated is beyond me! Not only did this man single-handedly bring the game into household of the average joe with his famous "charges," BUT he also brought the Open Championship back to its rightful place as a world wide MAJOR after years and years went by when nobody really cared about that tournament in the states (except for the great Ben Hogan!). Arnie is and will always be the KING!

So lets be honest here: The most over-rated PGA golfer is and will always be GREG NORMAN. Of all the majors he was in contention, only two never got away: The 1984 & 1993 Open Championships. Yeah, yeah I know all about Tway and Mize, but look at his 1984 year for a perfect example of his over-ratedness: In the lead after three rounds in all FOUR MAJORS and could only close the door on the British. And lest we forget his failures at the 1993 Tour Championship to Jim Gallaghar, the 1995 U.S. Open to Corey Pavin, the two MASTER collapses to Faldo & Olazabal, etc., etc.The list is endless for Norman when it comes to all the tournaments that he could of, should of, & would of won...and never did. Truly a PGA career that was never fulfilled. How did Rick Reilly of Sports Illustrated put it: "When Norman is buried they should bury him in a silver coffin." How true, how true...

[jdaniel]

Easy folks. Over hyped maybe. All these names you are mentioning are great current and past champions, weather they were long or short term, here or over seas. If you don't like the hype that's fine, but please show some respect for great players with majors and almost 20 PGA titles.

Overrated, would be some one who's been discussed with, but never really stood up to the guys being brought up here.

Not guys like Kite, Watson, Wadkins, Norman, Faldo, and so on.

John Daly sounds like a winner to me. And don't start with how good he was to win a major while he has hammered.

Hank Kuene, all the hype and no wins.

Corey Pavin, Brad Faxon, to name a few.

[spuds64]

Greg Norman is the most overated he won plent of money but couldn't close the deal on the majors. I do not believe Faldo ever was the star that Norman was but he won 3 times more majors. What is Kasco Pro saying Shingo is the most overated, first of all he is still young and we are are talking about overated of all time, Kasco Pro do you go to the same barber as Pate Bates, nice dew Billy Ray as in Billy Ray "Mullet" Cyrus.

[KascoPro]

Greg Norman is the most overated he won plent of money but couldn't close the deal on the majors. I do not believe Faldo ever was the star that Norman was but he won 3 times more majors. What is Kasco Pro saying Shingo is the most overated, first of all he is still young and we are are talking about overated of all time, Kasco Pro do you go to the same barber as Pate Bates, nice dew Billy Ray as in Billy Ray "Mullet" Cyrus.

That was my class picture in 1988. It is a joke, AGG thought it was a great mullet. By the way Greg Norman overated are you kidding.

[KascoPro]

Greg Norman is the most overated he won plent of money but couldn't close the deal on the majors. I do not believe Faldo ever was the star that Norman was but he won 3 times more majors. What is Kasco Pro saying Shingo is the most overated, first of all he is still young and we are are talking about overated of all time, Kasco Pro do you go to the same barber as Pate Bates, nice dew Billy Ray as in Billy Ray "Mullet" Cyrus.

I don't know how well you read, but the title said past or present.