+TourSpecGolfer Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 So its Called GSS by Scotty and DASS by Bettinardi, there is some confusion about this prestigious metal. When metals are broken down into mineral form its true make up becomes clear. There is a limited amount of pure 303SS on the planet and even less pure GSS around. The cost of GSS vs Carbon is 30-50% more in terms of material cost and In order for a metal to be considered pure it must have at least 90% of a certain mineral. That leads me to the question what are the exact mineral contents that make GSS different than SS303? Is it carbon? is it Iron?? Any Insight is appreciated. While at Gauge Designs Japan today I got to feel first hand the difference between GSS and SS303 metals. The GSS had a distinct feel over the SS303. SS304, Nano Cast, and soft carbon steel. The vibrations it makes are so fine yet very noticeable when compared to other metals. 60% of the putters made for the JPGA Tour by GD JPN are made od GSS per request of the Tour player. The only company in Japan that has GSS is Sumitomo inc and it is not cheap stuff even in block form. GSS was made famous by a German Silverware company for the very very wealthy, In fact the silver wear was limited edition also. There is no real name for GSS its basically a mineral make up and the term comes from Scotty Cameron putters. Oh my What a sweet feel and oh my is what people say when they see the price tag. Any insight on the technical aspects would be appreciated :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAQ Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 Chris: GSS always stood for German Stainless Steel. Specifically used on some of the very special Scotty's. I forget what DASS stands for :cry: I have no idea on the exact mineral content of either of these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primo Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 DASS = Dual Aged Stainless Steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jy Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 I've read this somewhere...not sure if its the same DASS Bettinardi uses but its supposedly softer than 303 and 304..don't shoot me if i'm wrong :lol: AL 304 DA Stainless Steel A tri-ply composite consisting of a dual stabilized, low carbon steel center "sandwiched" between Type 304 stainless steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jy Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 I think Primos right, but isn't it double aged to be exact? Not sure though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey3108 Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 DASS = Dual Aged Stainless Steel I though is Double Aging Stainless Steel. :? I've heard that you can achieve that by heat treatment on a certain metal. Chris, Yes, I agree w/ ya on the feel. It has a ton of feel on your hand when you putt w/ it. I'll check my metalurgy and machinist hand book if i can find the answer. The problem is, those OEM are using a fancy words that doesn't match w/ the one on the book. :? Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cclaeys Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 DASS = Double Aged Stainless Steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightrider Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 I have done extensive research in this area. I cannot find anything related to German Double Aged Stainless Steel in any metallurgical journals. I don't know how factual this story is but, I was told that Scotty was on a trip in Germany and needed a catchier name for Double Aged Stainless Steel. His great marketing mind started to churn and GSS was born. As I understand it, DASS is a process. Metal is heated, cooled and then reheated at high temperatures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primo Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 Hey Lightrider, quick question for you. I've been playing the BB-43 the centershaft blade with the plugs along the bottom. I was told it is DASS is that true? Do you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightrider Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 BB-41, 42, and 43s are all DASS. The Millenium series was all made from DASS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillypete Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 Its all about the same thing... the DASS or GSS is just heat treated 2 times instead of one. It costs a little more b/c its a special order from the steel mill. Its not really used to often b/c its so close to regular 304 S.S. It is actually a harder material than 304, however it has a tighter grain than 304 so vibrations are conducted better. You can do some crazy stuff to steel when you start quenching in different liquids and reheating. The cost difference is really minimal though. this stuff ain't gold, its easily made. On the scale of SS its still right near the bottom as far as cost goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted May 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 That leads me to the question what are the exact mineral contents that make GSS different than SS303? Any Ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HipCheck Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 That leads me to the question what are the exact mineral contents that make GSS different than SS303? Any Ideas? Hopefully this clears it up. From what my crack team of researchers tell me (my fingers and mouse), Type 303 stainless steel is an actual type of steel (composition of the steel), while GSS (or DASS) is a process applied to the steel (which is what Pete said earlier). Type 303 Stainless is Austenitic Stainless steel. Quote: Austenitic is the most widely used type of stainless steel. It has a nickel content of at least of 7%, which makes the steel structure fully austenitic and gives it ductility, a large scale of service temperature, non-magnetic properties and good weldability. The range of applications of austenitic stainless steel includes housewares, containers, industrial piping and vessels, architectural facades and constructional structures. Maybe Todd from TKSPutters can chime in? Here's a quote from a msg. board from Todd: ...double aged stainless steel is the steel Mr. Bettinardi uses on all his stainless putters. It is 303 double aged stainless steel. I hope this helps... ...Double aged stainless is soft stainless. Normal productions are single aged 303 stainless steel which is crisp and firm. Double aged is baked a second time to make the stainless softer. So, I guess the different is process rather than composition. Much like the 'who does the best forgings in the world' debates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jy Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 Some numbers that I have no clue as to what they are talking about, maybe it will make sense to you guys..theres a 304 DA steel down the list that comes closest to the DASS I think.. http://www.alleghenyludlum.com/ludlum/page...roductLine.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted May 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 Thanks Everyone! The info given is much appreciated. I will be taking a Tour of Sumitomo in the future and wanted to get a broad idea of what i will be looking at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PxExG Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 I did not think there was a need to start a new thread on this & it is related - materials in golf clubs. I heard from a knowledgeable friend of mine that Tungsten is not widely used in golf clubs - certain not as much as we think. First a little bit about what makes Tungsten "special"... it is not its strength anyways - it is in fact quite a weak metal at RT but does have a very high melting point (~3000 *C) though that is not applicable to golf clubs IMHO!! It is dense - thats its speciality from what I have heard. Twice as dense as ordinary steel and over 50% denser than Lead. On a side note - its chemical symbol is W and lead is Pb *stands for plumbum lol* Anyways do you remember the Cally Hawkeye? had to tungsten screw in the heel which led to it being dubbed the Hookeye. Below is an extract on it: Tungsten/zirconium alloy screw plug. Neil Lipson, the source of most of my tungsten and molybdenum, sent me this little plug in exchange for me analyzing what it's made of. He was hoping there might be iridium in it, but instead analysis by x-ray fluorescence spectroscopy at the Center for Microanalysis of Materials, University of Illinois (partially supported by the U.S. Department of Energy under grant DEFG02-91-ER45439) indicates that it's a strange mixture of primarily tungsten (62%) and zirconium (30%), with the remainder being iron and nickel. I looked around on the web and could find no references to tungsten-zirconium alloy, but that's no proof that such a thing isn't used in specialized applications. I would guess high temperature, corrosive environments, perhaps a chemical reaction chamber that operates at high pressures and temperatures. I would, however, be wrong, as was pointed out in an email from John Wechselberger: By the way, the tungsten alloy three-hole spanner threaded plug on your site is a weight plug for the Callaway Hawk Eye golf club. A chamber in the club head is filled with a measured weight of the aforementioned pellets, then closed with the plug, which is machine-driven with a three-pin spanner drive head. The Big Bertha plug is similar, but has larger diameter, smaller spanner holes spaced further apart, and the head contour comes up as a shallow cone, which then goes to a flat, rather than the blended contour of the Hawk Eye plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PxExG Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 Here is a pic: and a couple of sites I got info from: http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/...4/index.s7.html http://www.espimetals.com/metals/cattungsten.htmq Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedioliver Posted May 31, 2004 Report Share Posted May 31, 2004 phillypete is right... the more you heat steel, the more the grain structure becomes tight, the more the feel is soft... that's what we call "aging" steel...and could be done on many steel variety just look at this picture from www.matweb.com to see how many kind of steel can be find now. I will say that these DASS or GSS are basicall 303 steel with different aging process and perhaps made by a "big name" in the steel industry for constant quality, and not by a standard suplyer... You only have to find the good Rockwell or Tensil strentgt to find the good one... BTW, many steel manufacturers are working on the composition, trying to make some kind of steel softer or harder, depending on the request of their customers... pehaps did you notice that aluminium also have different aging process. these process are named with a T symbol next to their category (6061 T6 for exemple)... look here: http://www.severnmetals.co.uk/notes_al.htm Hope this help... And yes, Mr Cameron is a king of marketing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2004 Report Share Posted May 31, 2004 Marketing is the key word. 303 is a stainless 304, 316 ect... Those are processes done to stainless, mostly 303. 303 is one of the cheapest (not cheap) stainlesses. What they are doing is anealing it to soften it, I'm sure for manufacturing purposes. I think 316 is the best for putters if you are looking for a chrisp feel, but it cost more and is twice as hard to machine. I would think the German SS part could be from a German steel mill which provides custom blanks. Or Euro for that matter. Honestly soft carbon putters should be what you want, softer more responsive, cheaper to produce but more expensive in the long run because you have to pay to "treat" them to prevent rusting. BTW the cost of stainless steel is getting crazy, watch a move away from stainless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studatnu Posted May 31, 2004 Report Share Posted May 31, 2004 its all about how materials are heat treated. You can manipulate materials to make them soft as butter or amazing hard. At the company I work at we use Stainless Steels from 303 SS to 316L VIM/VAR & Inconel. As an example the 316L VIM/VAR and Inconel, are materials that are drawn/rolled under a high vacuum and temperature to ensure the highest quality and purity in order to have a very tight and clean lattice structure. Mainly used in Semiconductor Equipment. As it was discussed earlier, its basically all the same (GSS & DASS). Just different processing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey3108 Posted May 31, 2004 Report Share Posted May 31, 2004 Marketing is the key word.I would think the German SS part could be from a German steel mill which provides custom blanks. Â Or Euro for that matter. Â I wouldn't be surprise if actually it just came from a german steel mill / scientist and the actual steel it self is coming from our own mill in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2004 Report Share Posted May 31, 2004 China Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightrider Posted May 31, 2004 Report Share Posted May 31, 2004 Let's also not forget that carbon is softer than stainless. So if you want the softest feeling putter, get a carbon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey3108 Posted May 31, 2004 Report Share Posted May 31, 2004 ChinaI wouldn't be surprice looking at the price issue. However the last info i got from a local suplier the countries who ussually produce a good "high quality" metal is US, German, Japan and lately Malaysia is coming strong and sold a lot to China.He could be wrong but hey who wants to argue w/ some one working in the industry for over 20 years. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedioliver Posted May 31, 2004 Report Share Posted May 31, 2004 I think GoingLeft is right... I had the chance to speak a little bit with a french tungsten dealer (I am french...) who worked with Taylor made just after Salomon Sport ( a french ski manufacture) bought them (everything is now under Adidas control...) he used to sell some tungsten weight for taylor made at that time but confirmed me that today, everything is made in china...everything... concerning steel specification, chinese factory are now offering the most versatile production process from conception to milling / surface treatment...etc... guess we have to find new business... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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