primo Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Well, I am going to declare this site dead. I don't exactly know why, but this site just doesn't get any posts! I went away for a week, I come back and there are a grand total of about 30 new posts. So I have to wonder why? Is it because it's summer and everyone is out playing? I hardly think that's the case as other forums seem to be more than healthy. So that leaves me with the content on this site. The more I look at this site the more I see that this site is really just geared for a very group of golfers. Those with a s**tload of money. Let's be real, this site isn't very friendly for junior golfers, which probably make up a good percentage of a healthy forum. On top of that my theory on these "so called unbiased golf forums will all dissapear soon. Chris has a great catalog site and the forum will become an afterthought. Very much like the forum on TGW. I guess my complaint is that if you are going to be a golf forum where people talk about golf and golf equipment, then that's the kind of site it should be. If it's a store, then say that up front. I'm sick of the owners of the sites writing a review of some club, saying it's the greatest thing since titanium woods, only to find that there are 5 for sale in the BST forum. Now Chris has done a fairly good job of writing reviews which seem fair, at the same time I understand that Chris is running a business and needs to make money. Sound familiar? I swear it was about a year ago this exact same conversation came up on BSG which forced a lot of us over here. Now I see the same s**t different crapper... Just thought it this would be an interesting topic of conversation. I highly recommend everyone participate, even if it's just to say, Yeah Primo I'm with ya! Or you're way out in left field on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfdr Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Well - I agree with parts of your post - especially with the number of posts and the sale section. I will disagree with other parts though. This site offers great reviews for the most part - many are unbiased. I also like that Chris speaks his mind on clubs - not just trying to sale items. If it is no good - he states that - even if he sales it. There are many great posters on this site as well as other sites. As for my posting - it has dropped off especially after some posts and emails. I enjoy reading the posts of the new equipment and the pictures. It is slanted toward Japanese imports, but to me it also is straight forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCsub Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 I will start the "I respectfully disagree" opinion. First off, I would never mention this site in the same sentence w/ BSG. I created memberships at both sites about one year ago. I found BSG to be all about the owner. If you sold something he sold or mentioned a place to buy something cheaper than he sold it for you were banned. Now that's BS to me. Conversely, on this site, there are no fees to post your own items. I myself have bought several expensive clubs from Japan that have not worked out for me, and I was able to quickly sell them for very close to what I paid. I have bought items from Chris, and found the prices and service to be very fair. Some sellers have even posted the same things Chris has at lower prices, and he does not delete their posts. I remember recently someone complained about his items being on top of the list. I thought that was ridiculous! He owns the site and pays for it, so he is more than entitled IMO. I look at the BST as a service to us and not a sales tool for him. And the catalog section was only recently created, so this site started as a forum place for enthusiasts. I would say the main emphasis of this site is the import gear. Yes, these clubs cost more than what we get domestically. I am by no means a rich individual, and with a wife and two young children, golf clubs are not my priority. But relatively speaking, tour quality golf clubs are available for reasonable prices if you decide you want them. For 2-4K you can create just about any bag in the world. Clubs any tour player could pick up and most likely shoot their same scores. Compare that to say a high end wristwatch, which starts at 5K and goes way up. So I like that aspect of golf clubs. Whether or not those who can't buy some of the offerings on this site are offended by it, I can't say. I guess that would be like me going to an exotic car club website and being pissed I could not have one. I know I can't buy a Ferrari so I don't really care. And lastly, while the # of new posts remains low, I think that helps keep a friendly community. I have been members on other sites that have spun so out of control I don't go there anymore. Here I can even converse w/ tour club builders... what a service! I have made several great friends, and even talk to them on the phone on a regular basis. So, I enjoy the site, and remain grateful for all of the hard work and $ Chris puts into it. I play clubs I had never heard of before, and regardless of how my game improves I personally enjoy knowing I play clubs I don't see in everyone else's bag. Again, these are just my opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcap26 Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 My opinion is that it is summer and I have not had time to post much up until this weekend. The weather is beautiful here and I would rather be out not on the computer. I look at posts as quality over quanity. I for one am glad we do not have a Tiger thread every day or a Phil Mick or Vijay thread every day. There are certain topics that have been beat like a dead horse and we do not need to go down that road. Yes the amount has decreased but I honestly think it is due to the summer months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 My opinion is that it is summer and I have not had time to post much up until this weekend. Â The weather is beautiful here and I would rather be out not on the computer. Â I look at posts as quality over quanity. Â I for one am glad we do not have a Tiger thread every day or a Phil Mick or Vijay thread every day. Â There are certain topics that have been beat like a dead horse and we do not need to go down that road. Â Yes the amount has decreased but I honestly think it is due to the summer months. My thinking also Alan . In the summer who wants to be couped up inside , in front of your computer when you can be outside doing almost anything . Doesn't have to be golf , being at the lake or camping out somewhere . Wait till the snow starts to fly and then we will see the posting pick up . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HipCheck Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Well, let's be honest. Will there ever be an completely unbiased golf forum? No. Why? Because every review that's completed, every new purchase evaluated, every opinion asked, gets met w/the same response....an opinion. There isn't 100% complete objectivity in anything in life. We are able to surf this site for free. We can express our opinions for free. We can post items for sale w/out fee. We can buy the same items for sale in B/S/T for sometimes A LOT less than in the catalog -- we are not charged. Above all, we can say really whatever we want here without censorship or fear of being banned. This site is NOT geared toward the 14 year old. Clubs are too expensive, b/c of exchange rates, import taxes, yada yada yada. But every site has to have a marketing plan. A target audience. A goal. A business plan to keep itself afloat and make a profit. Look @ any other golf board and you'll see sponsors. Is there a big coincidence that those sponsors start lots of threads and have generated interest in their equipment? Heck no. But I don't think there's anything wrong w/that. BTW, I really do think that Chris does a good job of reviewing clubs. Obviously he has a vested interest in things, but he's not threatening anyone who sells something identical or ramming one brand down our throats. There are not as many posts here as I would like. Why? I don't know. But when the weather turns cold, I believe that'll pick up. But it's still better than seeing these threads every week: "Mickelson...a V Steel?" "Tiger wears white shoes" "Tommy55's bag is out of control!" (my apolgies if there's really a Tommy55 :wink: ) Man, that gets tiring. :tired: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt_Slaughter Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 i amd with u on parts of it. the site hasnt had very many posts in a week but there a lot of people here who have great opinions on clubs and offer great reviews. bsg and tsg arent in the same category, tsg is better in my opinion. bsg is all about the owner. example, i saw a post on bsg not too long ago from bighitter saying hes gonna give free sway to people that were only part of bsg and have never posted anywhere else. only on his forum. again its ur opinion and i respect but i dont feel the same way u do on some aspects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 What I noticed is our members are timid to post due to the lack of knowledge on the subject of import clubs. Its understandable really, where else can someone get info on the items we talk about here? not many places :sad: :smile1: I do know we have a bunch of members who are not rich yet still spend what they have on the finest equipment and to be honest I like having a smaller more knowledgeable crowd, from the start we didn't want the mases and not sure if anyone has noticed but there is an 18 year or older only notice that you must click to register now. I'm sure all the juniors click they are 18 but it sends a clear message out that we don't cater to the juniors. Primo before you declare anything dead please remember the site is far from complete, this is not meant to be a forum site it is slowly growing to a magazine site as I always intended it to be. Only 2 members have seen the special area but when it is released perhaps you will get a better idea of what I'm shooting for. There will be nothing to compare TSG to when its done...nothing. About money, some of you know TSG makes a good 80% of profits in Asia, we are not worried about sales here in the U.S, perhaps a large handful of VIP customers but other than that the U.S market is not the place to be, even with the PGA tour here, many customers still cant justify nor afford the purchase of what I'm selling. Already with the 3000+ members in only 10 months it is a great start, far better than I ever expected. I am more worried about having 10,000 members and only 2000 are really in tune with this scene and the other 8000 are component or just the average club enthusiast. Lots to come guys, no need to rant primo because you haven't seen nothing yet :logo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haribo Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 i saw a post on bsg not too long ago from bighitter saying hes gonna give free sway to people that were only part of bsg and have never posted anywhere else. only on his forum. CM, You must be kidding. Primo, Unless one enjoys year round golf conditions ... this is pretty much it for the summer. It's seize the moment or wait until next year. Give it a bid more time and people will put divots on their keyboards again. haribo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKFLY Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 I think it is the summer thing - plus alot of guys are not switching equipment. Wait - ryder cup and the cold season blues and evreyone including me will be blasting questions about new equipment. I hope that is the case since it was fun last winter getting reeved up for the season. :smile2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfather1 Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 I think this site is great, the reviews are pretty much unbiased. First I think it might have to do with the fact that like AK said people aren't buying yet. Also give time until companies like TS release thier new product line. Yes this site is not geared to the 14 yr. old, but most 14 yr olds don't have such an extensive knowledge on golf. Chris does a great job here, when he thinks a club is not up to par for it's price he says so even though he is selling it. Also the sd and cb section is very helpful. The bst section is very good you can find some quality stuff from at good prices and there is no posting or membership fee. I have bought some clubs here from the catalog which I love, and would not have even heard of w/o this site. While this site is mainly geared to the import which is expensive, but there is also the domestic section. While you can't expect a perfect site with totally unbiased reviews, plentiful posts.... there will always be a couple of biased reviews, this site comes pretty darn close. Great job Chris! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bma725 Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 example, i saw a post on bsg not too long ago from bighitter saying hes gonna give free sway to people that were only part of bsg and have never posted anywhere else. only on his forum. He modified that eventually to allow posters from GolfOpinions, the GEA, and maybe DoubleGolf.com. Basically not guys from here, or FGI or Ham and Egg...though I don't think theres a lot of FGI or H&E guys that hang out on BSG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Although there is some truth to Primo's rant, we can't expect the site to be highly active 100% of the time. Myself I check into the site often and drop into chat often as well. Yes it's been quiet of late but I'd rather people keep quiet rather than go off on a tangent about nothing just to post a thread. Yes TSG is geared towards the high end market but you can't say that topics involving domestic retails equipment are ignored. Frankly, does your blood get flowing when you see yet another retail TM driver release or when you see pictures of the latest Gauge prototypes or sweet Mizuno satin wedges available only by custom order in Japan? Golf season is coming to a close for lot's of people, except for the greatest golf tournament this week! Summer is slow for new releases and indeed many are travelling. Chris has also been busy sorting out his business so has had less time to participate. When there's no news there simply is no news. We're not on TSG because we lack people to talk to or things to do! We're here because of our passion/addiction to golf and golf equipment. When there's nothing much happening on both fronts, you have to expect the site to remain quiet. I would like to STRESS that in no way does Chris manage the site like an owner with the sole focus of profit. He does not interfere with posts, never prohibits any BST posts, never forces any clubs on anyone, recommends people buying elsewhere if cheaper than his prices, supplies tons of great information and pictures when available, remains quite objective about reviews (everyone has a bias), DOES NOT CHARGE ANYTHING, and is working on a kick a** members' section which will be unparalelled. There are also the summer contests, and Dman's contest which are unbelievably generous and a great part of this site. I would like to encourage members to participate a little more often in chat. You don't have to come in for a drawn out discussion but just drop in and say hi to anyone who's there. If you're logged onto the site, just log into chat even if you can't really "talk". Above all we are a community of passionate golfers who are focused on golf and don't use TSG as our daily social community. Yes it's geared towards high end equipment - the site's name should have given THAT away... To borrow someone's analogy, you wouldn't go on a car site and expect highly active discussions about the latest Ford Taurus...but the latest Ferrari or Porsche, now THAT gets the blood flowing! As with cars, the high end stuff doesn't appear at the same frequency and therefore TSG will remain silent at certain times of the year. This site is an absolute gem and I think we need to define members' expectations. Do not expect TSG to be your source of daily infotainment but rather consider this to be your ultimate source for information and access to the best equipment available. Don't expect new informative posts on a regular basis, that simply cannot happen but expect to be able to query the number of highly knowledgeable members about anything and expect at least some sort of feedback that will help you. Be aware that golf is seasonal and new purchases will definitely be concentrated in the early part of the year. As stated earlier, golf season is winding down for many and I expect things to slow down by consequence. I am a very critical person and would certainly voice my opinion if TSG were to take a direction I didn't like. I have to strongly object to any suggestion that TSG is taking on the feel of that other Bull S*** Golf forum. If I ever felt that was the case, I'd be outta here in a flash! So use me as a barometer :laugh: Keep the faith in TSG. Chris is not making a living here and has put much effort and thought into creating the best site possible. He is no genius (lol) so some areas can always be improved but he's done an amazing job so far and I can't wait for the members' area to go online. No I haven't seen it yet as Chris says I'm too critical :-) but I'm sure it will blow us away. If you've read this far, don't you have better things to do??? :cool: Didier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bma725 Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Its pretty understandable why there isn't much posting, just look at the header. This site at its core is about import equipment, and honestly thats not a huge discussion piece at other places. You're not going pull users off the GEA, GO or other places to talk about Import stuff, because there's no one there talking about import stuff. BSG was the only place that had it, and most of the people that were into import stuff there are now here. Outside of import stuff, this site isn't big enough to get the amount of posts of other places. The GEA has over 100,000 registered members, BSG and GO are in the 10s of thousands. Thats well over whats on here. Now think about how many of the people on other forums are really active...its a small percentage. Less people to draw from, less participating, less action on the forum. Its still pretty early though, only BSG became big quickly. GO took years after those guys left the GEA to get big, and it had taken the GEA awhile to get big as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Well said Didier :cool: And yes I do have something better to do . Like head to the chat room :laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 I think most people don't post since: 1)there is a very limited opportunity to test japanese equipment ouside of Asia; and 2)they can't read or speak japanese. Most people just don't have much knowledge of import clubs so there is nothing really to add. The point of this site seems to be what Chris has to say next. No offense to anyone [i'm not making character judgements since I obviously don't know any of you personally] but from browsing through the forums I get the impression that Chris is like the leader of some cult and many of you members are his followers.....even though he really does seem to have inside knowledge and connections within the japanese golf industry. I recently joined this site since my japanese is at the kindergarten level at best so it takes me a few weeks to get through the jap golf mags and it makes me reluctant to call shops overseas to place orders. It also doesn't help that none of my japanese relatives play golf so I can't really count on them to purchase stuff and ship it back to me [even though I'm always shipping NBA stuff back to them]. This site lets me get some decent news and reviews without having to whip out the jap-eng dictionary. So even though I'm somewhat up to date on the latest equipement through the golf mags and this site I have no opportunity to actually hit the clubs which means I don't know jack and have nothing to contribute - until now. I recently picked up some gauge fw woods through Chris and after hitting them have posted a review. I also picked up a prgr driver elsewhere and will post a review as well once I hit with it a little more. It probably just comes down to experience and as more members get to play with japanese clubs the more posts there will be. Hey Primo - Gambatte Kudasai! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TourSpecGolfer Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 www.tourspeccult.com :wah: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HipCheck Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 I get the impression that Chris is like the leader of some cult and many of you members are his followers..... Nah, I wouldn't call it a cult. Chris is just very persuasive. What? You mean you've never seen a pic of Chris before? Here you go... :laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 I get the impression that Chris is like the leader of some cult and many of you members are his followers..... Nah, I wouldn't call it a cult. Chris is just very persuasive. What? You mean you've never seen a pic of Chris before? Here you go... :laugh: LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKFLY Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 I get the impression that Chris is like the leader of some cult and many of you members are his followers..... Nah, I wouldn't call it a cult. Chris is just very persuasive. What? You mean you've never seen a pic of Chris before? Here you go... :laugh: LOL I thought he was fatter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zojo Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 more like this for those of you who have seen spaceballs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxio Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 We need people (other than Chris) who get to try all the rare Japanese equipment like TaipanLi, Zool, Willy (This guy plays a lot of stuff US/ Japan/Component/OEM), and maybe even me to post and do reviews and comparisons. Comparing my Japanese Bettinardi alone against my US retail should be good enough. But unfortunately I'm on the lazy side. As my contribution to this site for providing me with good deals. I promise I will do 1 review every 3 weeks of a piece of equipment that I feel isn't readily accesible to the US Market if I can ask my Asian Ho brothers to do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey3108 Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 We need people (other than Chris) who get to try all the rare Japanese equipment like TaipanLi, Zool, Willy (This guy plays a lot of stuff US/ Japan/Component/OEM), and maybe even me to post and do reviews and comparisons. Comparing my Japanese Bettinardi alone against my US retail should be good enough. But unfortunately I'm on the lazy side. Â As my contribution to this site for providing me with good deals. I promise I will do 1 review every 3 weeks of a piece of equipment that I feel isn't readily accesible to the US Market if I can ask my Asian Ho brothers to do the same. Are you telling that WTB is the worst ho in Cebu? :surprize: Joe :smile1: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breal Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 I think for one its a little slow, is because of the summer months and also there is not much new stuff coming out as of yet. I think Chris has done a awesome job, and is on track on what he wants in the future and his dreams of TSG. IMO people that post just to post and say nothing is useless, and if someone has something informative to say then do it we would love to hear it. But other than that this is by far the best golf website out and is only going to get better. This is a informative website for help people find out a little about a product before pulling the trigger and Chris provides that for us. I have met some great people also, on this site and that means the most. Its great to have informative friends to talk shop and have there view point on the subjects your talking about. I go on this site for info and to give info that I personally know about. Not to post to make post numbers higher, post something that makes a difference to the TSG's. But as for now its a slow time, and it will pick up because there will be more real subjects to talk about. There will be new equipment import and American etc. in a few months, and people will be home more in the winter months so no worries. Chris is doing a great job and is a friend and with what his dreams are for the site, it is going to blow minds I'm sure. And I will back him the site, and friends of the site, to the end. This site is for information, equipment and fun remember, when you throw out negativity. This is a great site face it or bail no one wants negativity around, at least me and alot of other people I know. Keep up the good work Chris and keep the site going to higher levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primo Posted September 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 OK! Now we're talkin! Don't everyone get their panties up in a bunch. To be perfectly frank, my goal of this post was to create some controversy see if anyone is out there paying attention, and to get a better understanding of the dynamics of the members of this site. I do feel that the site is getting extremely slow, and I have heard from others that I personally referred to TSG, that they didn't feel comfortable. That it was a "rich man's club." To a large extent it is. Now if you look closely at my original post I never wanted to imply that Chris uses the same practices our friend Todd uses, in fact I think I stated that his reviews seem to be pretty fair and somewhat unbiased. To be perfectly honest I have no real way of knowing for sure if they are fair. I know that Chris and I have different tastes in clubs so it's pretty tough for me to gauge just how to take his reviews. Look I understand it's a business. And I'm sick of hearing that Chris spends money for this forum for us to enjoy. The bottom line is that Chris is running a business and this forum and the upcoming magazine is all part of it. I don't want to hear that crap about how we should appreciate these forums because others have put the time and money into building out the site. Believe me Chris wouldn't be putting so much time and money into something unless he thought there was opportunity there. Don't get me wrong, Chris is an EXCELLENT businessman, I have purchased clubs from him before and found his prices to be more than reasonable and the clubs have always exceeded expectations as far as condition goes. Also Chris has done a great job with this site and I can see it's much more comprehensive than any other site I have seen. I know you've got a ton of plans for the site, I remember talking to you about the answerfreak stuff which would be really really cool. I'm looking forward to what the future will bring, but as many of you know the internet is extremely fickle. Once things die out, people don't really come back. I could be wrong, let's hope I am. I hope the site gets better, there are a lot of registered members, but I am concerned that there doesn't seem to be a lot of posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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