Epon SUS316 irons?

[akapur]

Problem will be solved shortly guys, we are working on something.

Chris you have me intrigued. Can't wait to find out what you are working on.

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Chris you have me intrigued. Can't wait to find out what you are working on.

The best quality Japanese refinishing at a reasonable price. Including copper & double copper. Main thing is quality as I'm a stickler on that.

[daamartin]

Ooooooh I am interested! Have a set of heads a waiting...

[chiromikey]

...IMO The AF302 is a players cavity and the 316 is nearly a muscle cavity which makes it unique because most muscle cavities don't feel this soft...

Can you explain your thoughts on this a little more as I was thinking it's the exact opposite. The 302 has a slight muscle just behind the sweet spot while the 316 has the thinner top line and less offset that "players" prefer.

Edited February 10, 2014 by chiromikey

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Can you explain your thoughts on this a little more as I was thinking it's the exact opposite. The 302 has a slight muscle just behind the sweet spot while the 316 has the thinner top line and less offset that "players" prefer.

In my experience when I hit many of the muscle cavities they all feel much more firm. TourStage MC, previous Yammy Tours, Miura CB1007, list goes on...

Slightly bigger cavities like the 302, Srixon 725, CB2007. Etc.. Etc.. It begins getting softer.

Go one step larger into OnOFF forged, VG3, legacy Black, etc.. it gets even softer.

Is this on purpose or an attribute of design as muscle cavity players often seek feedback (harsher on miss hits). But also when you got more dense mass behind the impact zone it sometimes feels softer as well.

To sum it up IMO muscle cavities feel more firm and harsher on miss hits while the slightly larger players cavities are usually softer.

But what's also interesting is some blades feel softer than muscle cavities.

So what I was saying is this 316 is softer feeling than many other muscle cavities.

[Mjr. D]

But all things being equal, meaning all pure as can be shots, a blade will feel the softest, then a player's cavity, then a muscle cavity, etc, etc, correct?

[+TourSpecGolfer]

But all things being equal, meaning all pure as can be shots, a blade will feel the softest, then a player's cavity, then a muscle cavity, etc, etc, correct?

Not really although many think that. Design, materials, annealing process play a more important role in regards to softness. There is nothing that says a blades design is softer because of its shape or size or the lack of a cavity.

[Mjr. D]

Hmmm, interesting.

[chiromikey]

I think blades feel more "pure" when struck perfectly because there's more mass right behind the ball at impact compared to a perimeter weighted iron...at least that makes sense to me.

Edited February 12, 2014 by chiromikey

[+TourSpecGolfer]

That's what most people think but it's not exactly that simple.

Many blades don't have more mass than parameter weighted CBs.

I've gone through a bunch of prototype Irons that haven't been cut out yet, meaning the cavity is totally filled in so it can still become a blade or a CB, it's like a big fat blade and they feel no softer than anything else yet have double the mass behind the impact spot and around it.

We have asked the question "what makes an iron feel good" to some of the best designers. The answer is interestingly, CG, loft, design, sole, material, process as a combination + perception.

"Pure" and feel is so subjective then add to that the annealing process has a lot to do with how soft the metal actually is. So you can make the same exact blade one soft or hard at impact.

Then there is shaft. Feel is vibration running up through the hands into our ears so that also plays an effect on pure. Graphite often feels more muted or soft attached to any head, it also makes irons that are harsh outside the sweet spot feel less harsh. Grip material and design matters too.

In Japan there are far fewer generalizations about golf lots of gray areas that fall into perception and preference sorta like how one mans best driver is another mans worse. Publications in the USA also tend to stay away from generalizations but on the web we say this is how it is because of X,Y,Z without really understanding it. I don't fully understand this either.

The most common public perception I see is: smaller, less offset thinner irons look better. The more people who say this the more that are influenced by the crowd even if the shape is actually rubbish.

Designers and grinders look at the hosel to neck transition and can spot garbage, but 99% of golfers can't see it and immideately zero in on top line and offset because of context created.

I don't know where I'm going with this but I guess what im trying to say is we each have our own version of pure, to some it may be what others call mushy and to others harsh. The majority have been influenced by the crowd.

I'm sure if we ran a poll people would say blades are more pure than anything else.

[Shankopotamus]

If I am understanding you correctly, I agree with you, Chris. Myself, for a long time, thought that blades were the softest type or design of iron. My perception was not based on any actual experience, rather what I had read and was told. I finally tried several different blade style designs, most of which felt harsher to me than the softest cavity backs I had played. Certainly my lack of skill/ball striking contributed to the harshness of the blades over the cavity backs. But I did hit some of them on the screws and the blades had no advantage in feel over any larger design I have tested. All that said, perception I think it's huge as well as the type of shaft installed.

[RIduffer]

Is it my imagination or does the Moart SS at this years show look strikingly similar to the Epon?

[+TourSpecGolfer]

They do look similar don't they. The Modart is on an entirely different level in price and manufacturing though, not necessarily better IMO just very different.

S25C Forged but 100% CNC milled so there is no grinding done at all which means zero heat transfer and the carbon retains 100% of its natural feel.

[robbie]

Is Moart more expensive ?

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Only their irons are, the woods and custom grind wedges are fairly reasonable. Modart (R is silent) is $600... Per iron!!!

We've got a demo iron on the way, the cage demo was booked solid. It supposedly feels stupidly awesome. I witnessed everyone saying this but haven't it felt it for myself.

[RIduffer]

Do they make a MB?

[+TourSpecGolfer]

Do they make a MB?

It's not in their official line up but we are working out a custom grind MB & Wedge series with them to offer exclusively to TSG. But yes they do make them by hand set by set for tour pros at the moment. Anyway T will make an article about this. Let's keep this on Epon :)

[robbie]

I love blades but $600 a head ?? ill need a 9 iron and a 7 iron and a strong 5 iron please

[+TourSpecGolfer]

I love blades but $600 a head ?? ill need a 9 iron and a 7 iron and a strong 5 iron please

The custom stuff we are working on is not near 600 per head. Only the fully CNC'd clubs are. btw no one is doing this with clubs today.

[mpbachman]

Back to the SUS316 :) Definitely growing on me. Grabbed my buddies satin AF-302 and they are definitely softer than the Yoro MP-64s I was playing (though both really nice looking players cavities) but probably the best feeling irons I have ever hit (granted, I have only tried Miura 1957 Small Blades, 501s, Mizuno MP-64s, Epon 503s). Debating now whether my next plunge should be Copper AF-302s or these SUS316s (anyone know if the price is comparable between the two?) Would love to order through TSG as well :)

[ukok]

Have had two range sessions with these and can confirm they are seriously good clubs. I Play the non-plated version and cannot be happier.

Unfortunately, courses are flooded in the UK, so no real on course action for a few weeks. I would also say not a scratch on them after approximately 600 hard range balls. Will not carry out full review until have played on real grass but these could be the best Epon, irons of all time?

Edited February 17, 2014 by ukok

[Kekoa]

Sorry if I missed it, but are there any address pics of the sus316?

[supo]

i got to hit a test 7i a week ago i . had it persoanlly shafted with an NS ora shaft so i cud garner its true potential..

well its soft all right but its also dense. so it doesnt get too lost everywhere on the face which i really liked.

i was initially dissapointed or rather more surprised really , bec i was expecting a really aggressive players club , but EPON it seems, once again..... just dont have it in them to go "full tard." they just cant go all out . which is not a bad thing mind you..... , but when ur expecting it and u see it for real its like mehhhhhhhhhhh another one.....

BUT THAT JUST ME !!!!!!

FOR ME.................... it has slightly more off set than i was hoping/liking to see. although tis not really a lot and its CERTAINLY NOT a bucket... it is there and tis noticeable.

i had my aftour with me as well and my prgr idbl so i got a proper comaprison, i cudnt say for certian if it had more or less than the af tour , and i dont actually know the numbers if it is or not but for sure it was noticealy more than the IDBL.

the sole is thinner. and its a slightly smaller head . albeit a bit longer for its over all size. which prob makes for slightyl easier striking and the impact is just sensational . i mean really really good!

i was moving this everywhere, realy trying to get a feel for it nad i got it to do what ever i was trying to do plsu some. so it has al l lthe characteristics of a proper playes iron at imapct. thats for sure..!

and as long as u have not seen a reall zero offset iron u will be taken immediatly by this club id imagine, it is quite agressive for a small cavity .

the cavity itself is interesitng, im not sure what the design MO is on it i guess it helps makes the imapct sensational but i dont see any real perferormce adhancement in it

. but i m sure there is , thats for the tecnical guys to add thier part here.......

its a small pocket cavity IMO with a slightly longer blade. thin top line for sure.

i was thinking what grass this wud suit best and i figuered it wubd be AWSOME on hawaii style or a . softer shorter cropped grass style ., this wud be super.!

it grew on me .. (after my inital dissapointment ) i picked it up agan a few days later and just looked at it , waggled it and thought , yea i cud prob play these with no real problem......

a set of these in a bag wud look the nuts.

i guess ill prob look at a set later in life .

over all id think these will appeal to a heck of a lot of guys

they are def a bit more palyer esque than the 302s, and even the personals. and right there with the af tours.

i think epon will do well with this model. they seem to have less off set than the persoanls. ( agian i dont know numbers , this is just observation)

but the personals to hit are just out there on thier own IMO.

they def grew on me and when u hit them, prety sure any reservation one might have, will just fly instantly.............out the window.!

Edited March 5, 2014 by supo67

[eponsus316]

Are Epon SUS316 irons conforming grooves?

Edit: I cannot find them on the usga conforming list.

Edited March 19, 2020 by eponsus316

[dickyfowler]

personally I couldn't care less - but I don't play professionally and just use them to rob my friends.  Playing off 1 and having all this lovely non-conforming equipment is a blast. But the benefits of most of the non-conforming gear is overstated.  Sorry I can't answer your actual question.