MOI Matching!!! many of you are missing out on this technology

[Aston55]

I've been on TSG for a few years now but recently got more active here on the forums. I've noticed that many of the forum members here try all sorts of club looking for the 'perfect' setup :)

Being that most here are club enthusiasts and spend good $ on equipment, I find it very odd that almost every single set of clubs sold on BST are built to standard SWs and are not MOI matched. Its pretty easy to spot MOI matched clubs, as most MOI matched are NOT built to .5 inch increments but rather .375 approx increments (makes it easier to build this way).

I've been playing MOI matched sets for two seasons now and its hands down far superior than SW matched imho. I've built several sets for myself and friends experimenting with different MOI settings and lengths. Here's my reasoning of the benefits:

- All clubs feel the same in a swing. PW or 3 iron. I know that I only have to use the same amount of energy. That brings a heck lot of confidence when you address the ball knowing each club is literally the same!

- .375 increments bring the clubs closer together. The long irons no longer feel like 'long' irons. Hitting a 4 or 3 iron feels like my old 6 or 7! Yes, the short irons do get a little longer, but most of us dont have any issues hitting PW and 9 irons.

- MOI matched clubs result in a tapered swing weight. For example my sets are MOI matched at 7000 moi and my pw is approximately D4.5 and my 3 iron is D2. Each club goes up in SW slightly as the club gets shorter. This makes a lot of sense. Why do you think our drivers have less SW than our wedges? The entire bag is progressive.

- Every round my body and tempo feels different. My theory and experience tells me that its easier to get back to the right feel in a moi matched set on my bad days (starts). Since the entire set is matched your body is configuring shot after shot to match the right amount of energy.

I can tell you that before I played MOI matched clubs I use to struggle with the long irons especially the 4 iron. I experimented with driving irons, hybrids, etc. I would use long GI irons and still had trouble in comparison to my mid irons. After the last two seasons playing MOI sets, I must humbly say that I have drastically improved in this area, enough that I put 3 iron blades (crazy mbs) and 3 iron epon 302 muscle-backs in the bag. I can swear that I'm just as confident in hitting a green longer than 200 yards out just as a 160 yard green. To a degree, this is also because I am getting better as a golfer but a lot of credit goes to the MOI matching of my clubs. In the last three months, I have had an usual amount of birdies on par 3s that have been 200-230 yard distances using my 4 and 3 iron. Not trying to brag here at all, but I would not have dreamed this two years ago when I couldnt even get the long iron on the proper trajectory!

Last comment: I've become friends with a lot of you here as we share a common interest in this crazy game and appreciate the craftsmanship of these JDM beauties. This post on MOI is just a comment (my opinion) to potentially benefit some of you here if you agree with my statements. I am not trying to start a crazy debate here :) Its worthwile trying an moi set built to you if you havent already. It won't automatically turn you into a pga tour player, but there is an absolute benefit especially long run. Cheers!

[Mob]

I played with an MOI matched set this season, and really like them. I am not sure which is the bigger benefit, MOI matching or the new shafts I went to, based on an extensive iron fitting. My left handed Miura MB/CB set is now MOI matched with Accra Tour 90i shafts. I used to prefer my Epons, which have Recoil Prototype F4 110 shafts, but now I prefer playing my Miuras. When I go back to my Epons, the shafts feel too whippy, and I tend to hook the ball more.

[Aston55]

I think impact is from both, the shaft and moi. The epon set's moi could be too low, likely in the shorter irons. As the clubs get longer the moi gets up, so you may not be going as left in the longer.

Higher moi helpls a lot with the hook as you need more energy to turn the club.

[nobmontana]

Is there a resource/link you can share that explains how to build an MOI matched set that is right for our swings?

[Aston55]

Hey Nob! I'm loving the AAA, I'm thinking of trying it in the lower weights 60x or 60s just to compare.

Tom Wishon is sort of the pioneer in this space. His website has a lot of good information:

http://wishongolf.com/clubmakers/matching-golf-clubs-by-moi/

http://www.wishongolf.com/downloads/MOI101.pdf

If you're really interested, send me an email and I can recommend how you can do a MOI build. I like the method of building based on your favorite club's MOI :)

You take your entire set, pick out your favorite club or even look at two favorite. I can bet that your two favorite irons in the set or probably the same or very close. Then you match the rest of the set to that MOI. There's a few different ways to go about that. Rebuilding the entire set from scratch (new shafts) or reuse the existing shafts, but lengths become an issue and there are some trade offs.

[Ian-500]

I have a set of Steelfiber players spec on their way. Am I right in thinking that these are moi matched or very close to it?

[nobmontana]

Thanks for the links.

I was thinking this might be a good project to do over the off season. :)

Glad to hear you are enjoying the AAA!!

[Aston55]

I have a set of Steelfiber players spec on their way. Am I right in thinking that these are moi matched or very close to it?

Unfortunately not. MOI matching a set is a custom and labor intensive job. In my opinion, the only sets that are closest in MOI are the new DG AMT shafts. Each shaft is different in weight by four grams. If you put the clubs on a moi machine, the set will be closer in MOI than other sets.

[Aston55]

Thanks for the links.

I was thinking this might be a good project to do over the off season. :)

Glad to hear you are enjoying the AAA!!

Nobu - no problem. Yea its definitley worth getting into if you like to work on your clubs. The moi machine is not that expensive. Its really more about investing your time as it takes a quite a bit of effort.

You'll also probably like to invest into a good loft and lie machine if you dont have one already.

Just remember that MOI matching is very sensitive and every time I cut a shaft by 1/8" MOI is impacted by 20 points. So cut little by little :)

[+TourSpecGolfer]

I eventually gave away my auditor machine after almost a decade of owning it, I cant tell any difference in actual score or end results on any of my personal iron sets that were MOI matched vs swing weight/length prioritized, so in the end to me its just a much more time consuming way to build clubs with many variables to go wrong, if you go too heavy or light off the start then other clubs feel horrible, I have hit sets that were imo perfectly MOI matched to my best club and they feel great in most irons but not all, something never "felt" matching to me.

Ive tried blue printing my own sets, sst pure, freq match etc and no longer because there is no difference in my score, I still gotta hit that ball with a good swing and make the right shot decision.

The basics are loft/lie/length/swing weight/grip size this allows you to learn what works best for you and how it changes when using different shafts or heads there is a process that allows the player to learn how adjustments in these basics turn to various results, with MOI matching your relying on the club builder and I will add so many top club makers email me with the dumbest questions "what is the best driver?" like really stupid questions or what irons should I sell to my customers... blows my mind then they turn around and talk like experts to their customers. Some of you guys know a lot more than most club makers already, most of you guys can fit yourselves better they can fit you as well. Some stores carry all brands have top notch fitting cameras and equipment yet everyone walks out fitted to only one company which is the stores favorite brand.

Clubmakers will sometimes give a glowing review to anything that the customer can't do for themselves which makes them more relevant in a day where golfers get their best deals on the web.

With the amount of time most of us spend on the forums and the amount we spend on gear we need to understand for ourselves the basics of club making, specs, shaft and head selection and how that correlates with "our own" swing using what we can see, feel, and measure on our own to verify.

[RLL33]

Amen.

[Cforselius]

Im having trouble believing in this. How is it possible for a great shot to become even better and a bad shot become better because of this? It is still a bad or good swing, not a bad way the club is build. My personal opinion is that its a way of making more money for nothing. but thats just me speaking.

[Aston55]

Cfor - I respect your opinion, but never did I say that playing MOI sets will turn a bad swing into a good one. My opinion and experience with playing MOI sets has proven to me that its easier to play consistently throughout the entire set of clubs. Just as playing a GI iron is far more forgiving than playing a blade. Playing a GI does not make a bad swing into a good one, but it does improve the result.

SW matched sets require a litte bit more energy as the club gets longer. This is not the case with MOI sets.

I also believe that Dynamic Gold AMT shafts are going in this direction as matching the shafts in SW creates a set that is far closer in MOI than a standard weighted set of shafts.

Chris - I agree with all your points. You are relying on the club maker and there's a lot of guys who don't know crap out there. That is why I ended up learning and doing all the work myself, so I can build to the detail I desire. Things such as loft and lie are done terribly by most shops and do not meet my standards. With your experience buidling MOI, I agree its very sensitive and time consuming. I also understand your comment about building too heavy as I have gone through that before and wasted a day's work building a set that was too high in MOI for my liking. However, once I found an optimal MOI for my swing currently, it is working really well for me. May not work for everyone, but there's a lot of feedback out there that MOI is working for many that have tried :) Cheers

Edited October 30, 2015 by Aston55

[neova]

Both my bags are set so I don't want to mess with them..

But I do have a set of component iron / wedge heads and parallel shafts which I could experiment with.

If I use .375 gaps in my irons/wedges will I be able to approximate close to MOI matching? I don't want to buy an MOI machine.

I also vaguely remember MOI matching starts with your favorite iron, for me that's the 8 iron.

The component heads I have have about 7 to 8 g gaps... standard i guess.

anything else I need?

[Aston55]

neova - unfortunately cutting by 3/8" is only a rough estimate. In other words, its a starting point for me to do the fine tuning. There's a lot of variables such as the weight of the head and shaft so a static cut of 3/8 would not work universally.

Only proper way is to use the audior machine. Yes, a good approach is to build off the your favorite 8 iron. If you have access to a machine, a simple test to see if you like MOI matching is to add lead tape to the shorter irons, in your case 9 and PW to match the 8. If you like those changes, its very likely you will do well with MOI. You would then need to cut the rest of your irons (7 iron and longer) to match the MOI of the 8.

[Aston55]

Forgot to mention: Yes, in general 3/8 increments will be closer in MOI than 1/2 increments. Doesn't necessarily translate to matching but closer.

[neova]

I also once did an online fitting using True Length Technology (TLT)

Using math to calculate ideal lengths bases on my measurements and postures.

I never built a set based on this because I was too much risk with expensive shafts.

Here were my recommended lengths

Club / Length / Lie

1 39.67 55 Hybrid @ 57

2 39.20 56 Hybrid @ 58

3 38.75 57 Hybrid @ 59

4 38.32 58 Hybrid @ 60

5 37.92 59 Hybrid @ 61

6 37.53 60

7 37.16 61

8 36.82 62

9 36.48 63

P 36.17 64 (including G/S/L)

[Aston55]

Intereseting how the increments were recommended

[neova]

There is a series of profiles for different golfers.of course I can't share it but it seems to be based on math + traditional fitting parameters

More info

Http://bit.ly/1LGZTkm

Edited October 30, 2015 by neova

[Aston55]

thanks for the link. I'll have to read into this

[Mob]

I do like the way these clubs feel better since being MOI matched; again I changed from Recoils to Accra, so that is likely playing a roll as well. My dispersion has also improved; a miss is still a miss, but it is less offensive for me.

[1dirtypanda]

neova - unfortunately cutting by 3/8" is only a rough estimate. In other words, its a starting point for me to do the fine tuning. There's a lot of variables such as the weight of the head and shaft so a static cut of 3/8 would not work universally.

Only proper way is to use the audior machine. Yes, a good approach is to build off the your favorite 8 iron. If you have access to a machine, a simple test to see if you like MOI matching is to add lead tape to the shorter irons, in your case 9 and PW to match the 8. If you like those changes, its very likely you will do well with MOI. You would then need to cut the rest of your irons (7 iron and longer) to match the MOI of the 8.

I've been interested in trying to build a set of MOI matched irons, just have a problem choosing which iron to match off of or which one is my favorite. :) hitting 6 or 7 or 8 is all about the same to me. maybe the 8 is easier but that's only bc it's the shortest of the 3. hopefully someone in the bay area will get a moi auditor soon *coughcoughrobbiecoughcough*

[robbie]

hahahaha....i was gonna pick up one on friday but then i got a couple pairs of wingtips instead ! : (

Edited November 3, 2015 by robbie

[Aston55]

if you guys end up trying it, would love to hear your feedback

[Overdose]

@Aston55, would you mind sharing the whole process of how to build a set this way from either 8 or 7 iron? I am also debating whether I should choose 7, 8,or even 9 iron as the base to start the set from. Obviously the shorter club, the easier to hit but there might be some disadvantages that I am not aware of. Thanks in advance.