TourSpecGolfer

The AF-302 was released in late 2009. If I remember correctly the GT-S came out the following October. Next up for SYD is the Forged XV iron. Size wise that one fits between the 502 & 702 so I guess I would call it semi game improvement. I'm sure a blade is in the works but that's a long while off still.

These are as you suggest. All same day within the same hour. We have a trackman IIIe here and a flightscope X2. We didnt pay for either so being unbiased the two both do the same thing for our needs Both pull the same accurate numbers as they are both Doppler based systems. The TM IIIe has weather and premium ball normilization which is cool but its visuals are not as pretty as the X2. For the purpose of web I like the imagery to be sexy. TMs engineers told me they are working on sexy graphics for a summer release. If its good Ill order one. I will post tatsuros gamer Jbeam 425 + 787 and the 388 today data today.

Tatsuro is a very accurate and consistent ball striker. Always straight & long with awesome energy transfer. His swing speed is in that 102-105ish range and he can work the ball at will. We like him testing clubs for TSG because the data we collect makes sense. Put me on the LM and I'm all over the place depending on the day. We took a bunch of clubs to the range, this wasn't his first time with the XV. In this thread I'm going to post data from several different drivers, these shots all hit at the same time. Perfect conditions, no wind, the Flight Scope was set to medium roll and generic ball as this was a range ball. Later I will post what happens when we put a uber high end shaft into these very same heads to compare the difference. This is nothing scientific just having fun with the clubs we test. Next up Tatsuro's gamer of more than a year. The J-Beam 425 Tour with Muziik 787 Stiff.

You haven't hit a Bold yet your telling us how it is... What if you love the balance? With a different shaft and grip its balance is like any other wedge. Many players like the balance, a few don't and that could be the design, It could be the CG, it could be one of the many things that effect balance in wedges or that the setup doesn't fit the players swing. Too many variables including sense of feel. I'm just telling you what the man told us. If those answers aren't good enough I'm sorry. Back to duffer, I think it's cool you can feel the different balance . I guess it's a possibility it's CG, I don't know. It's only 1-2mm higher than your other wedges most likely, You think it's just the overall weight distribution of the design?

GT FW is really nice but more for the better player. I'll post pics of that soon. A new XV FW is coming out next week. Here is a sneak peak:

Great, totally fine you think that. I just want you to understand your still speculating while I'm telling you what the former president of Endo has said. OEM's request their numbers are kept private. That makes sense to me but If you want to speculate another reason like patents etc.. that's fine although it's not what we were told. No need for example wedges, the type of wedges most of us play range from 19-21mm CG locations. Bold is 21.5. The 4 holes and 25g only moved the CG a couple of mm. None of this is my opinion.

TPC is great isn't it? I think we are changing subjects here. My only gripe is the two comments you made about CG moving a lot more than a couple of mm ( because we know thats not the case) and that the OEMs dont publish data because it usually means nothing to people. (they dont publish their #'s because it's the recipe) All the rest I dont mind, We are on the same page with everything else. Of course it takes a ton of variables to move CG etc.. etc.. If im coming across argumentative I'm sorry. In my shoes I sat there with the TSG team and we went over all your exact same questions including the flatter lie for woods question which Mr.K Explained easily and all making sense. Tario was there as well, it went deep and especially in those two areas. There is no man I would trust more than the man who moved the CG himself and knows other brands recipes. 19 - 21.5mm is where it's at. I don't think Endo has ever produced higher. 16-24mm is getting a bit funky imo. Any more examples of wedges in that range?

With S-Yard coming out with many new Endo forged players drivers a lot of customers have been asking what Mr. Kobayashi has in terms of players irons... We know that a new advanced muscle could be in the works as well as a new semi game improvement iron called the XV Forged. So what would an S-Yard fan looking for a players CB choose? The GT Type S of course. It's forged by Endo of S20C with heavy perimeter weighting and a nice compact appearance from above, I mean what else is there to ask for? I've been able to put these into play for a short period and they are soft and considerably forgiving for it's size. This is an iron that pictures don't do justice. In hand it's simply stunning with a brushed satin finish except for the chrome back face with bead blast accents. When standing above all you see is lovely satin from neck to face. In regards to it's size it's pretty compact. Smaller than mid sized thats for sure. This is a tried and true design for Mr. Kobayashi and you can see his DNA all over this.

This could be the one!

You sound like your talking about what I think a move in CG does to performance. That's not what I'm talking about... I'm telling you that it hasn't moved more than a couple of mm. To make myself totally clear: The bolds CG location isn't more than a couple of mm higher than many of the wedges you have been playing recently. That said 21.5 is a big deal in wedge design, just look what it took to get there and I think you can agree. Those 4 holes and all that weight up top didn't move it as much as you think. The above is what I'm telling you your incorrect about but I do think we both agree that moving the CG a couple of mm does little to nothing in a wedge although it does a lot in a driver. My example of the ONOFF Forged iron having 75g weight in the sole of an iron head thats lighter than a wedge head should make sense to you. In that case a lot more weight was added yet the CG isn't as low as one would think . That is in line with 4 holes + 25G on the toe of the bold only moving the CG it a "couple of mm". Not sure why you would cite Wishon. I believe and like his teachings but were not talking about what a CG move does to performance and he didn't design the bold nor would I compare him to Mr.K Does the Bold have a lower trajectory than other wedges? Yes imo in stock form it does, that doesn't mean it comes from the CG alone although one could figure it would. It can also come from the shaft or other design aspects combined. FYI: 19mm is considered a very low CG on a wedge while 21.5 is the highest we know of to date. Thats only 2.5mm difference in the entire range. Thats why I disagree with your statements.

Thats it?! OK yea Sasaya can do that no problem! It's an option. You and I are totally on the same page I prefer no weld but because I wanted to bring emphasis to the fact that Sonoma's don't come in center shaft I added it. Also I think most people actually like the weld.

Ryoma has a ton of data on the new Maxima that Tario is analyzing for his write up. I'm surprised to hear about the wrench and weights. Many of our peeps in Japan are saying it's longer and more forgiving than the D-1. Can that be possible?! I'm excited to find out. I've got the new SYD XV in the bag and don't see it going anywhere soon. It's a large semi pear shaped head while the new Maxima is a rounder yet triangular shape from the images. Expect a lot of content on both the Maxima & XV in the coming week!

Yes I'm telling you it's "a couple of mm". In some cases less. Duffer already plays wedges with a 19-21mm location so a .5 - 1.5mm higher CG shouldn't affect balance. There is no need for speculation, we know the numbers, Mr. Kobayashi himself In front of a board explained it along with a CAD diagram that showed it. That's the same day he explained the driver lie angles which Tario explained to you as well. On a side note Mr.K could be the greatest golf club designer ever. Here's a mind blowing fact, Mr. Kobayashi has been directly involved with producing the equipment for the elite (top 10 ranked) professionals of each time period over the last several decades! He is one of only 3 men that I've heard of who can create a mold by hand see below. He also said Vokey & Cleveland and most OEMs request that Endo keeps CG locations confidential. CG placement will never be a gimmick, Its too important even when moving only a half of a mm. I know what your saying that removing weight from the sole and placing 25g up top would do a lot more than 2mm. That's incorrect, A good example would be the ONOFF Forged iron. Tungsten weighting of 75g in the head would mean a super low CG but it's not that low. This isn't like adding 25g to a driver, Irons & Wedges are different. In the states rarely a mention of a numerical CG location in any marketing. In Japan it's actually a good selling point and thats why some OEMs include the CG location numbers in their adverts and sometimes draw diagram comparisons to where it was located in their last model. They do this often with drivers and fairway woods.

What's wrong with it so we can adjust it next time? There's a hole made where he inserts the metal neck which is what the shaft is secured to then the final step which I like is he flattens the weld a bit by CNC milling on the face side of the weld.

Final putter added to original post: I call it Blue Beads Boron!

21.5 is the CG location on the Bold, Half Inch = 12mm. Other companies keep CG location confidential but we know the range =o) and It isn't as much as your thinking although I agree that 25g seems like a TON on a wedge you would be very surprised how short a distance it moves the CG on this particular wedge. I think the vast majority of golfers can't feel a half inch CG in the "balance" of a club. Maybe notice a difference in the trajectory or performance but noticing a shift in "balance" is hard for me to believe. Not saying duffer is wrong just saying I would love to experience what he is. I do get the sense in stock form it feels a bit unbalanced. Let's not give anyone the false impression that S-Yard clubs as a brand require a learning curve. You gave a stock 388 9 holes and observed results of poor feel & 15+ meters short in distance. I'm not aware of anyone experiencing the same with this club, it's quite the opposite based on what I'm reading in the forum. I'm interested in what you would say about the XV but I'm also interesting in finding out the reason the 388 reacted that way for you. I'd understand not forgiving enough or too little spin but poor face feel to me means that you were far from center. very short distance to me means the setup/specs were wrong for your swing. Now the bold, it's finicky at times. my first round was spectacular, second not well and thats just the way things go. It does things that I haven't seen other wedges do but it also isn't as user friendly as others imo. It's give and take, I like it for chips, pitch, flops but don't like my 60* in the bunker. I hit killer 56 & 52 approach shots but pull my 60* left. I know the problem is me, It's just about finding specs that reduce the problem. I'm coming from Toyoshimas which were just easy breezy japaneezy. I even put both wedges on the LM. I can hit the Toyo's more consistently and higher while the bolds with more spin, lower trajectory and more accurate. Sometimes too much spin.

We already anticipated issues and stressed to Ryoma the product needs to be flawless and durable. We stressed that all last year as well with the D-1. Problems can occur more frequently with this design over others. Keep your warranty papers, If you bought the product at TSG you have the full backing of the OEM to replace any manufacture defects.

CG moves a couple of mm, I don't think that's what you guys are feeling in the balance. But if you are wow you got some fine senses there.

Grips coming off no matter what. I think something about the stock shaft is throwing it off even if it hits swing weight.

9 holes to adjust and dial into a driver is the thing. I'm like 8-10 rounds into my bolds and don't have them dialed in like my Toyo's were. 5 rounds into my XV it isn't dialed in either. That's fine it's a dog for you but what is it that makes it perform that way ? I think there is a lot of value in finding out. I know im curious.

While the stock setup is sexy I'm going to pull mine apart install new shafts and a bigger grip. The stock shaft is a bit heavy.

I love it! Opinions from it's the longest driver ever to ridiculous short carry. Serious though something is wrong, Thats the first I've heard of the 388 not feeling good and being 15+ meters short in distance. How many rounds F1? Your a single digit and in my mind the 388 should work out great. I suggest you use this opportunity to find out why such a great head isn't working for you, there has got to be something there. The 388 took me a couple of rounds and the XV took me a good 3 rounds + range time to work into. It's very rare anything works in stock form for me. The 388 stock shaft worked absolute wonders for me until about a week ago then all of a sudden didn't mesh with something in my swing, switched shafts and I'm back to straightness and length. My XV stock shaft got the boot as well and the club now behaves. I think when people say hit it like a FW or tee it a certain way it's simply what worked for them. You will need to find out what works for you. I never hit this thing like a FW or Tee it as low as others suggest yet it still performs. I've also spent a lot of time on the trackman & flightscope with the 388. It carries a hair longer than most drivers and rolls out about 5+ yds extra depending on the testers swing. Jimmie, Try the XV you won't regret it. At Crazy they are not using a dopler based radar system as accurate as the new Trackman or Flightscope. In fact it could be jacked up, many LM's are. What I like about the TM IIIe is that it excludes data that have even the slightest chance of being incorrect. If your fit into the 388 properly its a gem, same goes for the XV. On the TM when we normalize ball to PROV1 X from Range ball and normalize for weather his distances are 265-275. Also the numbers I will be posting today don't include upgrade shafts. It's the XV and 388 entirely in stock form.

Playing XV for the second round. We had a brief session on the new Trackman IIIe comparing the XV with the 388 both at 9.5 both with stock stiff flex shafts. No shots were excluded from this data. It's Tatsuro hitting 5 shots with each club with no warm up. Tomorrow I will take the flightscope out and do 20 shots each club with warm up. stay tuned.

It is a high launch shaft but with the piercing trajectory of the Maxima I think it would balance out nicely. From the video at that angle it looks mid trajectory to me.