ClubHoUno

Actually 8620 Carbon steel in reality is an alloy steel and not regarded as a true carbon steel at all. This is why you often will see this particular steel used in cast clubs, that sort of pretend they are forged. As in Bridgestone's new West Coast design wedges and Titleist's Vokey wedges- Also the Cobra Carbon players cavity back clubs are cast from 8620 "carbon steel" Not saying clubs can't feel great, when made from 8620 alloy steel - they sure can and I still love my cast 8620 carbon steel Vokey wedges (although they do not match my custom made proto Scratch wedges, which are quad forged from 1018 carbon steel) and will always and forever have a trio of Vokey's in my possession, just stating the fact that 8620 carbon steel has too little carbon in the steel to be called actual real carbon steel, but normally is being referred to as an alloy steel - except within certain places in the golf industry of course To defend the use of 8620 carbon steel, I've tried the Cobra Carbon CB irons and they actually feel great for a cast set of irons - wonderful set of clubs. However they still are cast from 8620 alloy steel in my view. As stated earlier, a cast clubs can actually today be made in such a way, that it is and feels softer than a forged club. It's all about how they are made and what they are made from. Real carbon steel in forged golf clubs starts at 1035 and the best softest forged clubs are always forged from 1025/s25c, 1020/s20c and 1018 carbon steel. Actually to my knowledge, the only place in the industry where 8620 alloy steel is being called 8620 carbon steel is within the golf industry - that just goes to show the whole point of what I'm saying here - check this link out: http://www.suppliersonline.com/propertypages/8620.asp

A BIG TIME DITTO from me on that But if the original insert way feels better, then I can live with the 4 screws in the cavity.....if not, then I'll be happy to loose the 4 screws and get some flashy blue Golds circles in the cavity to spice up the overall design of this fantastic putter - I will probably go for 3 flashy blue Gold's Factory circles like these:

I don't understand how a two piece fusion welded forging can feel softer than the Gold's Factory - both are blades and if the Gold's Factory are made from s20 Carbon steel and both are installed with the same shafts and grips - the design difference must be minute in two such fantastic simple and elegant muscle back iron heads. I love Miura irons, and still can't comprehend why Miura irons just feel so good - when you take into consideration that they are two piece fusion welded forgings........sighhh....this debate will go on and on and on.......I just would like to try and understand what this Miura guy does to his irons since they continue to battle against the best of the best (Fourteen MB, Srixon MB, Gold's Factory MB, Tourstage MB, Mizuno MB) and quite often win these battles or are very very close, in terms of feel, to the best of the best one piece forgings I know feel is a HIGHLY personal and subjective matter, but in here on TSG we have the biggest forged (JDM) club ho's in the entire world, and Miura still gets a lot more praise, than you would thought they would get, considering the two piece forged head Miura use in all their iron models. Miura have even stopped telling exactly what kind of carbon steel they use. They used to write 1020 carbon steel, but now it is "Mild carbon steel" which basically can be anything from s35c/1030 to s20C to 1018 carbon steel. When I look at the Miura muscle back irons and their small players cavity back sets (especially the new US Miura Cb-202) I realize, that this design and finish ranks at the absolute top for me - Fourteen and Srixon are close and the Tourstage muscle back also, the Mizuno in custom Japan finish also (a bit on the high tech side with thre Cut Muscle though from a purely aesthetic perspective) , but none of the sets outranks the Miura irons sets in my view, from a pure design perspective. If the Miura also plays as soft with same great feel, I just don't get it - how does this man do it, when everybody says Miura would gain more recognition (especially in the Asian world) if he started using one piece forgings and not the well known fusion spin welded heads

WOW - this is just like the RIFE putter grooves are made: If the more traditional way makes a softer better feeling putter, I would surely will pay that bit extra to get the best of the best - but on the positive side, the new way of making the premium zone grooves means that you won't see the 4 ugly screws in the cavity of the putter - this is definitely a step forward from a designers point of view. Is it possible to ask Master Sasaya what he thinks will feel better of the two - the PZ insert or the PZ stamping on the face of the putter ?

HOLY CR_AP - how much is that one :tsg_smiley_heart: :tsg_smiley_heart: :tsg_smiley_drool: Is it the same black carbon finish as on the retail Mizuno Bettinardi putters ?

But not for a guy like me with OCD tendencies - it gets dirty very fast. How do they play compared to the GP New Decade Multi Compound grips - I don't like grips that are too soft, I need some cord like grips without them feeling too harsh and I haven't found anything better than the Golf Pride Multicompound grips - they are now available in orange, light blue, yelow, green, dark blue and red and I use all the color variations, depending on the color shaft and graphics I have on the clubs. Mizuno irons will of course have the dark blue, Taylor Made R7 Tp irons the orange, Taylor Made R7 driver and woods the yellow, Titleist woods the red, Sonartec woods the light blue, Scratch wedges the green, Vokey wedges the red and so on..... I like to match my golf gear up with some color variation

Thanks for the pics I'm a Bettinardi putter addict - not anything like Todd Schumaker tksputters or Jimmy Cigar, but I will always have at least one or two Bettinardi DASS TOUR BB8 putters in one of my bags - that's for sure. It will take a Gold's Factory totally custom made from start to finish with personal satmping and engraving and Premium Zone insert made by the Master Sasaya to compete with a Bettinardi DASS TOUR BB8 FIT face, that's for sure. Nothing from any putter retail department comes close and not even a Scotty Circle T putter in my view. The Bettinardi studio looks awesome - I must visit it one day and put like a crazy man for 24 hours straight before I leave that place called "putter heaven"

Great looking putters :tsg_smiley_drool:

15...5.....12 for me

I still love my custom made proto Scratch wedges - the may not be the softest wedge out there, but surely it's in the top 5 in the world among the softest forged wedges and I really like the custom grind and custom bounce on mine - I feel like they were made exactly for me Wedges I would love to try one day: Epon Fourteen Mizuno Custom Japan (Don't fancy the retail Black Nickel Mizuno Mp-T's, they felt harder than my cast Vokey's.....not kidding) Yururi Gold's Factory Chikara Design

I would love to go and visit Japan - but I'm afraid I would get lost because all the maps and road names are in Japanese letters and not western letters - as opposed to the JDM Golf gear brands I feel like I have many things in common with the Japanese people, surely there's reason why the Scandinavian countries (where I'm from) have that many tourists from Japan all year round, even during the winter time. We all praise high quality products and do our best to sustain that level of quality in most of what we do and buy, from clothing to foods to furniture.

Ahaaa.....thank you - I'm getting wiser and wiser by the day I live and learn each and every day, and as long as I learn something new every day, I feel that more alive.

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I'm amazed at what Master Sasaya can do with his putters.......truly amazed What kind of finish is this exactly and are all 3 photos of the same putter with the same finish or is the finish different: UPDATE !! I now see from the papers under the putter in the last pi, that the finish is called Soft Black - is that a stainless steel finish or a carbon steel finish or maybe it can be applied to both materials ? I want a Golds Factory putter in double aged stainless steel finish of the highest most durable quality possible - and if I could have a some what darker strong durable finish applied to it, it would be awesome :)

I always wondered why all the Japan golf gear brands are using western alphabet letters and not Japan letters. I realize this is because they want the attention of the US and Euro market, but as it is currently very few select people from the western world purchase the expensive High end Japan JDM gear - so why do they continue to use the western letters, when they don't get attention from the Western world anyway ? PS I'm thankful they do, but does this mean that all Japanese guys and girls have to learn both alphabets in school ?

Ok, so the Beads Boron finish will be the most durable finish - but how will this stainless steel finish compare to the DASS from Bettinardi and the stainless steel from Scotty ? I will probably have some kind of paint fill to fill the gaps between the insert and the putter face, just like you consider doing, Lung-Chia. Regarding the Slit Line, Spoon - do you have a couple of pics of Gold's Factory putters with slit lines ? Thanks to all for the help and information provided

Okidoki - sounds good I want the whole parade pling thing on this putter. While I still want it to look classic and relatively simple in design and with regards to number of colors used for the paint fill - I want this pumper PIMPED up, but pimped up with some sort of reticence and discretion - if possible (I know this sounds like a contradiction in terms ) The head has to weigh 345 gram and each tungsten weight circa 10 grams. I want a Premium Zone groove insert with white paint fill on the face of the putter and the new round G logo with the Master Sasaya's signature on the sole of the putter along with two tungsten weight with white paint fill and a bold letter G written with blue paint fill. then I want the entire face and sole of the putter CNC hand milled twice to really make it stand out from a normal milled putter. I want a white bold thick sight line on the flange of the putter and a small blue sight dot on the top line of the putter. I want "Japan Hand Made" in bold white dancing letters on the neck of the plumbers neck and I want 3 small fresh blue Gold circle's in the cavity of the putter to take the attention a bit away from the 4 screws, the Premium Zone insert will leave in the cavity - to hold the groove insert tight and fixed. Finally I want the putter to have my initials written in thick white bold letter on the left bumper and "355 gr." in the same thick white bold paint fill on the right bumper of the putter. The finish has to be the Golden Beads Boron finish, if it's durable enough and maintenance free. The putter shaft have to be a 35" Mamiya FF shaft or a Rifle Precision putter shaft installed with an Iomic Blue Medium grip. I can't think of anything missing on this putter - if you can, please feel free to point it out I'll need it in May/June 2008. I guess production and custom making of the putter plus shipment from Gold's to TSG and from TSG to me will take a total of 2 months. This is fine with me, as I already have a fine Betti BB8 FIT DASS TOUR 1. art putter to play with in the mean time

WOW - the golden Gold's Factory is really sharp looking. Will the golden finish be durable - I need a durable finish for my Gold Fac putter - don't like to wipe the putter head down after each round and spray WD40 and bay oil all over it. I would consider this golden finish, if it is durable and maintenance free. Just need the best of the best - maintenance free - hand crafted from Japan Do you still like the putter ? Isn't it too heavy at 370 gram head ? My budget for this custom made Gold's Factory is $2K - I want the best there is to buy within this budget.

Hey Jeff, Haven't tried the Premium Zone grooves inserts - but have tried both the TM Rossa AGSI+, YES C-Grooves! and the RIFE Grooves. The TM AGSI+ grooves seems very fragile to me - since the groove area is made from hard plastic, the grooves won't last very well. My Corza Monza grooves began to deteriorate after a short while. The Rife grooves seemed more durable, but didn't like the look and feel of the putter. I actually likes the forged YES! Callie Forged with the C-Grooves pretty much, but the black finish wasn't durable enough and quickly lost the battle to some fertilizer on the putting green. Also the C-Grooves seemed pretty durable actually, as they are sort of engraved into the steel part of the putter head. I just bought the Bettinardi proto type BB8 with F.I.T. face 1.article of 9 made in satin pearl finish in DASS TOUR steel from Todd on TKS Bett Tour putters - and this putter is the best putter I ever tried. Also the FIT face really seems soft and seems to start rolling the ball faster than a normal Bettinardi with normal honeycomb pattern on the putter face. Would like to own two of the best putters you can buy, and surely a Gold's Factory totally custom made from start to finish must be up there along with a Bettinardi DASS Tour BB8 FIT 1.art of 9 Just would like to also own a true genuine Japan Made hand crafted Gold's Factory putter in BB8/Newport 2/Anser 2 style with some kind of HIGH QUALITY groove insert, which will be VERY durable. How well does the Premium Zone insert makes the ball roll compared to the YES putters ? Is it possible to get a Gold's Factory putter 100% forged from S20c carbon steel ? I'm not a putter HO, just want the two best putters on the planet with the best most simple and elegant design in Newport 2/BB8 design with a plumbers neck. I also see it's only possible to order the Gold's with 34" shaft. I'm 6'4" tall and normal arms and ned my putter in 35" length and 355 gram head. I will address my final order to Chris and/or Gocchin, when Spring 2008 comes Thanks

I want one for my summer bag next year ! Is it possible to order one with a groove insert, that looks, works & performs like the YES C-Grooves ?? My budget is $2K

Jeff, can you tell me if the black copper finish eventually will rust or fall off, or will it be as durable as a satin and chrome like finish ? BTW - these irons looks smashing......... And forgot.......how thick is the top line on the AF-301 compared to the new Fourteen TC 1000 irons ?

Chris, you're amazing at taking great pics of clubs - especially iron heads. The TC 1000 looks great, only the thick top line is a bit of a downer. Really like the satin finish on the TC 1000.......wow.....top quality finish

WOW - nice to hear that Chris I wonder if they have used a new kind of finish to make it feel softer than the previous Miura blade or if they have improved the blade design - not that there are much to improve on a small thin blade iron........

Must say that I like my poll All the contenders have at least one vote..... The Epon AF-301 is in the lead, but closely followed by the USDM Miura Cb-202 set and the custom Japan Mizuno Mp-57 satin set.

Interesting design to say the least.... Don't know if I will buy this or the more traditional looking 460 from Epon next year - but one of them will definitely be in my bag for the upcoming Spring 2008 season Don't know which shafts would fit this MOI head the best........would be nice to see some pics or hear from folks, who have hit both the Epon 460 and this new Epon EMB 460, how much deeper the face is on the traditional 460 compared to this new Epon EMB - I prefer a deeper faced driver........ Kudos to Epon for making new high end Japan forged and innovative products Now that I'm addressing the issue, is the new Epon EMB Forged driver actually forged and made in Japan or partly done in Thailand

I totally agree with on this. The club heads are tested with the stock shaft. If the stock shafts is of a decent quality, one should not by default throw it away as a NO NO option before even trying the stock shaft.