joey3108

I think so ! They also told me that they don't use RAT GLUE to weight the heads.

Since all the yellow column numbers are 8.5, 9.5, 10.5, I'm assuming those are the stated(marked) lofts. The orange column must be the actual(measured) lofts, no?I'm going to assume positive numbers in the pink column Up to this point you are correct are degrees closed: it's showing the R360 at 2.7° closed and I remember that club being a hook machine. Generally, the clubs with closed faces have actual(measured) lofts that measure higher than their stated(marked) lofts, and the clubs with open faces have measured lofts that are lower than the marked lofts. So if I'm reading this chart correctly, and I could be totally off here, it looks like open face = lower loft, closed face = higher loft? Am I off base here, Joe? Any # w/ - marked on it is a close face angle ( red collum ). It's should be easier to figure it out now. :) Do you need the blue pill now? ( Viagra or Alive ) :D

There are two issues that need to be addressed. One, are you measuring the face while it is square or while it sits open? The so called industry standard for measuring driver loft and stamping the head is to measure the club while it is in address position whether that be with an intended closed or opened face. But of course, we all know that OEM measurements are not always accurate - many a driver has been misstamped or manufactured without too many variables. So it really cannot be trusted to routinely say oh a driver is stamped X, it's open Y, so here is the loft at impact. And then there is all this business of the actual swing put on the ball which is why this discussion is way too scientific...especially when dealing with PGA Pros. They do not get it and most tour van people do not get it. They just know from experience that if a tour player is trying to get a lower ball flight or favor a certain pattern, then open the face a little. If that works a little, but not enough, then open it more. With a ton of driver heads at their disposal and with pros not paying a dime, trial and error is the rule, not a scientific calculation. The results on the tee are far more important than the why. Cheers Joe! 100% agreed Especially on how OEM did their measurement.Off course measured how the sole laid on the gauge machine, so i can measure how open the face is. Ok Now Here is the spec of Taylor made head . It's On the latest Golf Classic june edition. Check on the high lighted section. I'm sure that they measured retail version. Wadaya Think? I'm gonna make sure the exact translation and I'm gonna ask a native speaker Japanese friend/s on this. SO far my understanding are (Left to right starting w/ yellow highlight) actual loft ( yellow ), Static loft ( orange ), Lie angle, and Face angle ( red ). Joe :)

I'm Not saying that i'm a pro here. I have my good days and i have my bad days. Off course i'm not comparing them on my bad days.I've own 8.5* TP retail w/ a dead square head and I have 9.5* Tour w/ 1 1/2* open face. They are definitely different according to the loft , The 8.5* retail hit the ball lower than my 9.5*. The only different is that my 9.5* is easier to hit fade w/ it. Both driver has the exact same 671 X flex on them. And I've hit my good friends 9.5* retail w/ a dead square head also and hit this club a touch lower than my tour issue 9.5*. This club has a 671 S flex tipped to a S/X flex. IMO this club hit slightly lower due to tipping and "Maybe" because of 1/2" shorter. A lot of you local guy here has hit my tour club also, did you found it lower than the retail 9.5*? and you all know how high i hit that club. I hit so many of them, tour and non tour... None of them hit lower. I did found that hit lower and i measured it right after...True enough because the static loft is lower, that is why hit the ball lower. Bare in mind that i used to play w/ 8.5* taylor made burner, 7.2* and 7.5* GBB and 7* BBB...and as a ho, off course that wasn't the only drivers. :) joe

You and I have discuss it many times and You and I come to the same agreement. Like you state above What ever the face angle is if the face come back at impact square the loft will come back to what the loft stated, Right? Basically what ever the impact possition is, considering Moment of inertia off course. :)tsg4tch, Gotcha Bro!:) I'm completely clear w/ your explanation, It's just the number that you got from TM that doesn't match w/ what i have here. Dougf, Exactly! My point is that if the open face driver say 9.5* has a 10.5* static loft, at impact will come back to a 9.5* not 8.5* "W/ a consistent swing ideally". Demolition man, First! Like i said on my first post " keep it healthy " Second, I'm not confusing anyone here because my self is confuse. I'm not a physic proffessor, so that is why i'm looking for a better explanation. Honestly speaking I'm not a smart ass :) I always believe It takes a teacher to become a PHD. I don't need to tell veryone here what is my back ground education is, For sure my Diploma is enough to understand what live is all about. So I won't be a Jack ass :lol: LOL! However, You gave us Vijay's swing as an example...How many of the PGA pro swing like Vijay? I'm, sure very little percentage. For most of it I understand your explanation. So what i'm gonna do is that ...I'm gonna keep on reading and digest the one i think is correct and make sense. From time to time i've tried to explain it to a customers why their address possition on the club face is too close/shut ( iron mostly ), Because on the actual swing motion considering the amount of force, bow on the shaft, Body possition at impact and the club face change possition to a square possition at impact...Not to add the club face movement during MOI. I always said also that it doesn't matter what the loft of the club is, what matter is that we can achieve an ideal trajectory without compensating on our swing, which every body is not the same. Every one, Yes, I do understand long before I become a clubmaker, an open face driver during swing motion come back square will deloft the face from a static loft. But my point is Most of the open face driver that i have measured have more loft that what stamped on the sole. Say 9.5* w/ 1* open face and the static loft increase to a 10*...Now if this spec during the swing motion come back square, it should be at 9.5* loft Not 8.5* or 7.5*, RIGHT? BUT, Why they are all saying that 9.5* driver w/ open face hit lower that the 9.5* square or close face? Due to static loft changes for the open face driver and square possition at impact, Shouldn't the loft at impact basically the same at 9.5*?...that meants they are both will have the same trajectory if they hit both of them straight down the middle. Uh! I wish to invite all of you and show you everything and let you guys try to explain it to me after you see all of that. Thanks, Joe :)

OK now explain it to me why! All the tour heads and retails that came to me and I measured them all...The result is that open face tour driver have increased static loft ( for example 9.5* w/ 1*open become 10* or 10.5* ). From hundreds of head ( retail and tour issues ) that came in my shop, I never found an open face driver has been delofted. Especially on Fairway woods. My Smoothie 15* measured at almost 17* w/ 2 * open face. All the retails are pretty much stay true loft.I've measured them w/ http://www.golfworks.com/item_disp.asp?pn=DGCG Just like Johnny said! From technical point of view and common sense, How could the hosel bend open makes the face delofted. BTW, Who told you or where did you got the info from? joe ps: remember, 2 common words in golf : High right and Duck hook.

OK now you gave at least 1 "correct" example. :)Any body else? This is why I want to know where is the info coming from. Just trying to clear it up so we won't get mislead here. 8)

I've been hearing and reading about open face driver will hit the ball lower for a while by now. I'm just wondering , who the hell said this first? Is it coming from a rumors or legit sources? As far as I know "most" of the tour player like to have the face open so they will have a power fade shot without adjusting their swing. Let's keep a healthy discussion on this issue OK! :) Thanks ! Joe :)

I didn't know people did that. Please PM me the names of whoever re-bores/bends open Taylor Made driver heads. I've got some business for them. Why??? Taylor Made sales have increased during the time this became common. It's working. uhhh, sales. I never even considered Taylor Made products since nearly all the local pros are Titleist staffers, but when I had a chance to try a tour club I bought a TM driver. I liked it. Now I buy other Taylor Made products. I have a group of 15 guys I regularly play golf with: we were all Titleist/Cobra/Callaway players. Every one of them tried my driver, three bought new drivers, one bought irons, and one filled his bag. A few of the others are on the verge. Now that kind of exposure can be measured in dollars for Taylor Made. Everyone I play with wants to try my driver. Taylor Made knows that "X" percent of people who try their products buy them, so it's just a numbers game. And the numbers, i.e. $$$, are getting bigger for Taylor Made/Adidas. All because Taylor Made turns a blind eye when some caddy sells a tour driver his pro no longer wants. And I hope every one of your regular has a Fuji on theirs by now. :) :P :wink:

1* bending the loft stronger should not disturb the bounce angle to much. Especially on a raw heads, You can grind the bounce down to the way you like it to be. Joe

2 1/2 - 3 inch. You better get an experience clubmaker on this or you'll screw it up big time IMO.Good luck! Joe

Gotcha!I explained it to him already! He just got a new toy from me . :) Practise practise practise practise practise practise :D

Hell YES! :) Any body have a X or SX flex on their sticks should never complaint from the tip. PLus we pay the same price , right? :twisted: :P :lol: Hey I can fix that...what you dont think I have regular flex clubs..I do.. :P Trust me ! You wouldn't stand 2 holes playing w/ a R flex! :wink:

Hell YES! :) Any body have a X or SX flex on their sticks should never complaint from the tip. PLus we pay the same price , right? :twisted: :P :lol: Yeah we do :( But I should get a discount for age :lol: :lol: I am older than you Joe so that should count for something right :?: :wink: :lol: I though i heard some body hit a bomb at Dunes? YOu are older but you are bigger than me :P

Hell YES! :) Any body have a X or SX flex on their sticks should never complaint from the tip. PLus we pay the same price , right? :twisted: :P :lol:

After a post like that , I know of one person's hoing blood that just started pumping faster :wink: :lol: But I have a new mantra , Stay away from Blade's , I repeat this everytime I see a real nice set of blades lying about gathering dust somewhere :lol: :lol: They make you feel like a real man! :wink: Oh really :roll: :wink: And that is why when we played you were using a set of Japan TM Cb's :lol: And if I recall , you said that blade's hurt your already bad hands did you not :?: :lol: That is something I have not felt since I got rid of my blades and went to the Z 101's :D They were 3,4,5,and 6 irons only that day and the rest is still TN. SO Does that means I'm half of a man? I'm affraid I have to prove it to you . Can you get me 2 of 18 when I come up your way? 8O

Are you sure $600 brand spanking new? I've been missing a lot of things on Ebay lately if that is true.

After a post like that , I know of one person's hoing blood that just started pumping faster :wink: :lol: But I have a new mantra , Stay away from Blade's , I repeat this everytime I see a real nice set of blades lying about gathering dust somewhere :lol: :lol: They make you feel like a real man! :wink:

which one? I might have a few.Joe

Hard to believe if you can get it lower than that. Even at that price you might want to check the authenticity. Good luck! Joe

Pare, I got a clean set of MS11 from 2 iron all the way to a SW. YES! 11 clubs all together. I'll give a price you won't be able to refuse, especially if you ask me to blueprint them. :lol: :wink: Ask Kronik how clean the face of this club. You might be able to ask Willy boy ( Cebu's biggest HO ) to bring them home for ya. :) If you see the whole club condition, you wouldn't understand why the face are so clean w/ no chrome lost. The body is just a normal bag dings. It looks like the previous owner only hit them in the driving range w/ a clean ball only. Let me know if your hoing blood is start pummping faster. LOL :twisted: :P Joe

Pro 95 is not a speeder, so it's not a triaxial weaving construction. pro 95 has a slightly higher kick point and stiffer tip. 952 has a slightly lower torque (0.5*). Joe

Have you ever put it side by side to see if it really deeper face than the SS03? I'm selling this heads and I play w/ the SS 03. I didn't see this head is deeper face than the SS03. Royal collection and sonartec never have a serial number on the head as far as i know. Yes, This is the tour issue heads but the serial # thing is a misinform IMO. I wonder who told you that? BTW, The VJS110 shaft originally were from my hand before i sold it to Kronik. Did you resolve the problem already? Great price on the SS-PRO if that club is in a very good condition. J

Call me ! It's more effective for me to give you the right quotation and suggestion on shafts. THX! Joe

The new batch has arrived!!!!!! I don't have to many of 671 and 761. They are stopping the productions of this 2 great shafts due to high cost production, Same story w/ the 661 if i'm not wrong. The new graphics 869 ( green ), 757 (dark grey) and new graphics 952 (red)are in stocks too. Awsome color on these 3 new tour spec graphics. Due to availability in the US fujikura, These 3 shaft become cheaper now. Please email me for quotation. 660, 693, pro 95, SIX tour spec are stocks too. Let me know ! Thank you ! Regards, Joe Kwok 650 757 8310 PST The best time to call is 11am - 2pm west coast time zone. __________________ e-mail: [email protected]